re: Insurrection Act here we come and the fate of Trumps presidency in the balance

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Do you want to normalize the practice of using force to break up protests?

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Speaking for myself, it depends on the nature of the protest and how normal they become. With regard to the nature of the protest, it also depends on with what frequency that nature changes from the acceptable to the unacceptable. Many of these protests started out as not requiring force in my opinion but ended up as something else entirely. When this phenomenon becomes apparent, breaking them up BEFORE they become something else is justified.

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I'm not sure why you pretend to debate while never making a point.

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I did make a point. You changed the subject to something you made up. I'm not sure what you want me to do about that.

I remember your best response was hurling personal insults at it.

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I remember your best response was hurling personal insults at it.

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Because it's always the same shite with you. You say shite that doesn't mean shite about shite, and then when pressed about what that shite means, you fall back to the fact that you didn't say shite at all.

Then you bob and weave instead of engaging in a conversation. There are only two ways to respond to your refusal to make a point: ignore you, or insult you. Sometimes I like being petty.

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Korkstand

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Police have been using teargas and rubber bullets to break up protesters after curfew passes for the past 3 days.

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No, but teargas is pretty standard for moving a crowd that refuses to move. If they’d opened up with a minigun you’d have a point. But you don’t.

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So until the point they start firing miniguns, I won't have a point? Did you forget what the speech was about? Will you be shocked if they start rolling up to protests with miniguns? That is literally what he threatened tonight.

And on the topic of teargas being "pretty standard", has it escaped you that the point of these protests is that the old SOP is not acceptable? The weapons, the approach to situations, the attitude, sometimes specific personnel, sometimes whole departments, the "war on drugs".

I'm pretty sure that everyone on all sides will say that they all want a less confrontational and healthier relationship between citizens and law enforcement, but then the government response is a promise to "dominate the streets" with military force. That guarantees that when it's all said and done, that relationship will be even worse than before. It perpetuates the cycle. It's as if there is a vested interest in maintaining that standard.

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So until the point they start firing miniguns, I won't have a point?

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You can do better than that. I hope.

You made some bizarre claim that people are viewing all force as equal. That's just bullshite. So far, under the direction 99.9% of the time of STATE AND LOCAL officials, not Trump, standard crowd control measures have been used. They were used again tonight. If you want to pretend that was some weird disproportional response be my guest.

But stop with the "So blahblahblah..something nobody said" crap. It's juvenile and boring.

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You can do better than that. I hope.

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I did, but you neglected to address the rest of it.

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You made some bizarre claim that people are viewing all force as equal. That's just bullshite.

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Taxing Authority said that "violence is violence", and he provided the specific example of being arrested for tax evasion in response to my statement about being teargassed and shot with rubber bullets for protesting. He went on to say that the threat of government violence is "nothing new".

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So far, under the direction 99.9% of the time of STATE AND LOCAL officials, not Trump, standard crowd control measures have been used. They were used again tonight. If you want to pretend that was some weird disproportional response be my guest.

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It's mostly the tone-deaf nature of continuing with the "standards" when it's those same standards people are pissed about. And then dispersing a non-violent protest with gas and rubber bullets on the fricking way to give a speech talking about supporting non-violent protests is a slap in the face. Don't you think those words come across as hollow? Especially considering he definitely did NOT have to risk doing all that, but that he wanted to just for the photo op in front of a church with a bible?

It was a speech that promised safety and justice, but actions that promised to escalate tensions and continue with the old standards. Words that said "I am your ally", and actions that said "you are my enemy".

That speech promised to solve the problem, but it was really about quelling the symptoms with force. The root of the problem was on display before and during the speech, and the speech itself didn't contain a single word to address it.

[quote]So until the point they start firing miniguns, I won't have a point? Did you forget what the speech was about? Will you be shocked if they start rolling up to protests with miniguns? That is literally what he threatened tonight. And on the topic of teargas being "pretty standard", has it escaped you that the point of these protests is that the old SOP is not acceptable? The weapons, the approach to situations, the attitude, sometimes specific personnel, sometimes whole departments, the "war on drugs". I'm pretty sure that everyone on all sides will say that they all want a less confrontational and healthier relationship between citizens and law enforcement, but then the government response is a promise to "dominate the streets" with military force. That guarantees that when it's all said and done, that relationship will be even worse than before. It perpetuates the cycle. It's as if there is a vested interest in maintaining that standard.

The sad fact is, K, that once a society becomes divided on a First Principle Constitutional (God-given, Individual Rights vs Democracy/Rule of the Majority) to the degree that our Nation is now...it is ludicrous to believe that 'votes' can solve our problem, when votes ARE the problem.

Transnational Progressives (Antifa, Dem Party, MSM, Academia, Socialists, and a ton of Idealist "dupes and useful idiots", et al) are not going to abandon their "whatever it takes" moral-based struggle to destroy what they believe is a morally perverse Idea (Founding Constitutional Principle) which was so from it's inception.

So what choice does that leave Trump/Trump Nation, traditional patriotic Americans who believe in the moral-based Principle of God-given Rights? Let the Ideological (immoral?) Opposition burn it all down or vote it out?

The only reason that Conservative powers have not already unleashed the tear gas and hammer, is that the Populous is not quite ready for the backlash and exponential snowball of violence that will come when/if that line is crossed. Another few days of burning and looting, and the Right will be ready to accept the consequences and act on the same "whatever it takes" principle that their opposition does.

Human action is very predictable; the known version of our history, very well documented. It is impossible for grand Ideological arguments such as that which we now face, to be argued (Politics) successfully, when the participants disagree on First Principle. Read Thomas Sowell's brilliant essay on "First Principle"; he realizes that (political) discussion and talk, only makes debaters MORE divided and contemptuous and convinced of the "whatever it takes" model of fix the threats to their security and prosperity.

The Commies know...it always ends up at "the barrel of a gun". Therein...the Founder's wisdom per the 2nd Amendment.

Neither of "the vested interests" - the Conservative's soon to be (former) dysfunctional Democratic Republic, or the Democrat Progressive's hoped for pure Democracy (Global, Authoritarian Socialist version)- will address our societal breakdown and "transformation". Both may want - and postpone the inevitable - your "less confrontational and healthier relationship", but I think in their hearts, bot sides know that such is highly unlikely to prevail. And Politics (talk), only makes it worse.

Mud on the wall. Carry on.

Many of the peaceful ones are calling the shots for the obvious bad actors.