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Started By
Message
re: I wholeheartedly disagree with the Trump administration on getting rid of Net Neutrality
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:31 pm to OMLandshark
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:31 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
There are just stupid people who would accept anything he says.
cough cough Cpt.Bengal cough cough
1
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:31 pm to Korkstand
quote:
The only thing I don't get is your convoluted argument. Data caps with overage fees and/or exemptions are absolutely against the principles of NN. The current rules had planned to address data caps on a case by case basis to determine whether they were anti-consumer.
Uh, no. NN addresses treating all traffic the same. Data caps cap ALL traffic. Therefore it doesn't fall under NN. Which is why they still exist. If ISPs started creating data caps for specific sites like Netflix, then I'd agree with you. But they haven't.
quote:
Again, you cannot access HD video (the majority of internet use today) for 99% of the billing period with mobile/satellite providers.
Yes you can. You just can't watch as much of it as you'd like. That has nothing to do with access.
quote:
That is asinine, and I absolutely do NOT think that. What in the hell gave you the idea that I do?
Because you have this subjective idea of what "real" internet access is. I'm simply using the FCC definition.
I mean hell, 56k dialup is still access. Shitty access, but still access.
It's Internet Service Provider. Not Internet Service That I Decide Provider. They provide internet access. It's up to you to determine if it's worth the cost and QoS or not.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:32 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
That wasn’t directed at you
I answered
You ducked
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:32 pm to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:34 pm to Centinel
I note that you didn't challenge me on the point that the comparison of phone-centric internet access to wired access as equal services is ridiculous.
Your entire argument - "this is a may-happen, not a will-happen, and thus we must not make any law to prevent it" is ridiculous for two reasons. First, you have no reasoning behind your contention that prophylactic legislation is bad or unnecessary. We have laws against detonating a nuclear device in an urban area. It hasn't happened yet. By your logic, we should repeal a law prohibiting it. I think most people would agree that this shouldn't be permitted. Or, if you'll argue that laws against homicide are sufficient, then detonation of a nuclear weapon in a rural area, destroying property. Or above a major city, also destroying property. You have not given any reason for legislation to combat obvious but unrealized dangers being bad. Second, ISPs have already proven that they will engage in the anti-competitive practices that NN prevents/is intended to prevent.
This link provides an outline of various things that ISPs have done.
This problem:
They are, due to the lack of parity between content providers across the vast majority of the US. It's back to generators vs. the power company, which I will remind you that you were either unable or unwilling to address.
Your entire argument - "this is a may-happen, not a will-happen, and thus we must not make any law to prevent it" is ridiculous for two reasons. First, you have no reasoning behind your contention that prophylactic legislation is bad or unnecessary. We have laws against detonating a nuclear device in an urban area. It hasn't happened yet. By your logic, we should repeal a law prohibiting it. I think most people would agree that this shouldn't be permitted. Or, if you'll argue that laws against homicide are sufficient, then detonation of a nuclear weapon in a rural area, destroying property. Or above a major city, also destroying property. You have not given any reason for legislation to combat obvious but unrealized dangers being bad. Second, ISPs have already proven that they will engage in the anti-competitive practices that NN prevents/is intended to prevent.
This link provides an outline of various things that ISPs have done.
quote:
For what problem?
This problem:
quote:
These protected regional monopolies already exist due to governmental subsidy.
quote:
Again, I won't even bring up the fact they aren't actual monopolies.
They are, due to the lack of parity between content providers across the vast majority of the US. It's back to generators vs. the power company, which I will remind you that you were either unable or unwilling to address.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:34 pm to Centinel
quote:What does mobile or satellite internet being classified as broadband have to do with whether they compete with cable/fiber?
What does this have to do with whether mobile or satellite internet is broadband?
quote:I see you still don't understand what the term "monopoly" means. Hint: it does not mean absolutely one provider of a product/service.
What does this have to do with monopolies?
quote:Yes, 1% of the time. No, 99% of the time.
Do they meet the requirements of broadband? Yes or no?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:35 pm to ShortyRob
quote:No. They are competitors in the technical sense of the word. In economic terms, they absolutely do not compete.
In economic terms, they are definitively competitors
quote:I wouldn't dare ask you to explain anything as I prefer explanations that are at least mostly correct.
Please tell me i don't have to explain this
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:35 pm to culsutiger
quote:
Just because you reorder your viagra and get facebook pics from your great granddaughter doesn't mean that you know what the frick you're talking about when it comes to the internet.
You're probably older than me, and I know far, far more about his subject than you dude.
I've only run across two posters who even understood me when i started talking about TDMA, QAM/QPSK, or hell even basic networking principles like TCP and UDP.
quote:
I can stream two different HD movies simultaneously to two tvs off of a wired ISP while downloading a multi gigabyte OS update for my computer. I can do that on any night I please, and I can do it every night of the month. And I can do it without being downgraded to a 3G speeds for the rest of the month which are damn near unusable even for mobile browsing on the internet.
That's great. You have good internet access. Mobile providers still provide broadband access.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:38 pm to Korkstand
quote:
What does mobile or satellite internet being classified as broadband have to do with whether they compete with cable/fiber?
Because all meet the definition of broadband internet access.
ISPs provide service to the internet. Nowhere is that dictated what the service level is. Hell I'm being generous sticking with the broadband label.
quote:
I see you still don't understand what the term "monopoly" means. Hint: it does not mean absolutely one provider of a product/service.
That's the exact definition man
quote:
Yes, 1% of the time. No, 99% of the time.
What is the definition of broadband. How do they not meet this definition?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:38 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Yes, 1% of the time. No, 99% of the time.
56% of website traffic is via mobile today.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:39 pm to culsutiger
quote:
For someone that hates the idea of the FCC having more control of the internet, you love invoking the FCC definition of broadband.
Fine. Let's ignore broadband all together.
ISPs provide internet service. That service is stipulated solely by the ISPs, with the common aspect being access to the internet as opposed to only local area networks.
56K is internet service.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:40 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
56% of website traffic is via mobile today.
Oh dear. That doesn't fit the narrative at all.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:41 pm to ShortyRob
Centinel is wrecking motherfrickers in this thread
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:42 pm to Centinel
quote:
Yes you can. You just can't watch as much of it as you'd like. That has nothing to do with access.
Well, now I'm confused. Ability to access has nothing to do with access?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:45 pm to RollTigers
quote:
I note that you didn't challenge me on the point that the comparison of phone-centric internet access to wired access as equal services is ridiculous.
I've addressed this multiple times in this thread, since you all have the same talking points.
They are equal services. Both provide broadband internet access.
quote:
This link provides an outline of various things that ISPs have done.
Your link is full of examples outside the US, and the ones inside the US were addressed through market forces. Or in the case of Netflix, it was their fault.
quote:
They are, due to the lack of parity between content providers across the vast majority of the US.
No, they're not. There is no lack of parity in broadband internet access. See my first comment.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:45 pm to Centinel
quote:Data caps still exist because they can be neutral. There is specific wording about data caps in the rules because they can also be non-neutral. The determining factor is whether the cap is used in an anti-competitive or anti-consumer manner, such as allowing paid exemptions or exemptions for the ISPs own services.
Uh, no. NN addresses treating all traffic the same. Data caps cap ALL traffic. Therefore it doesn't fall under NN. Which is why they still exist.
Mobile providers don't fall under this rule because (you're going to love this) the FCC treats them differently than cable ISPs. It's as if they are not competing services.
quote:
Yes you can. You just can't watch as much of it as you'd like. That has nothing to do with access.
Ok bro, whatever you say. Go ahead and keep pretending that a car that can get you to work only 1 day per month actually competes with a car that gets you there every day. quote:The FCC definition you are using is subjective and arbitrary, just like any other. I'm just trying to tell you that mobile ISPs do not compete with cable ISPs, and the FCC definitions will tell you that, too.
Because you have this subjective idea of what "real" internet access is. I'm simply using the FCC definition.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:45 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Centinel is wrecking motherfrickers in this thread
Given this zinger of idiocy from earlier:
quote:
Net neutrality basically regulates mediocrity into permanency. Pass
Your endorsement might be the thing that breaks Centinel's spirit....Or gives him more fuel to fire up another round of the same dismantled arguments. Either way, thanks for signaling how fricked Centinel's arguments are if you are his cheerleader.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:46 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Centinel is wrecking motherfrickers in this thread
ShortRob has the IQ of a cactus, but Centinel has held himself well here and is clearly intelligent. A drunk me can clearly destroy idiots ShortyRob, but I would be honored tomorrow to debate this with Centinel. I’m not working tomorrow, and save for seeing Coco around 1:00 tomorrow, I have time to debate him. If Centinel would like to debate sometime tomorrow in a thread, it would be my pleasure. Would you be down Centinel?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:46 pm to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:46 pm to Centinel
quote:
Oh dear. That doesn't fit the narrative at all.
People look at Comcast as a behemoth.
I look at them like Blockbuster
Do you realize there was a time when Blockbuster video was considered a potential monopoly to the point the FTC got involved in them buying Hollywood video!!
In 2005!!! ROFLMAO
The FTC was worried about a Blockbuster monopoly in 2005!
Digest that and then just laugh
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