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Started By
Message
re: I wholeheartedly disagree with the Trump administration on getting rid of Net Neutrality
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:12 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:12 pm to Korkstand
quote:
So. The frick. What? How the hell do you still not get it?
Data caps existed prior to Title II. They existed after. So what do they have to do with Title II?
Why do you still not get it?
quote:
Satellite and mobile providers cannot offer this currently due to their tiny data caps.
What content can you not access using this providers?
quote:
But what the frick does all this have to do with the actual topic?
It has everything to do with it. You think everyone has a god given right to gig fiber everywhere in the entire country with unlimited data.
This is asinine.
1
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:13 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
What do you disagree with Trump on? He can’t be 100%. You need to give me an example on policy.
Drug policy
border wall
tariffs
the kind of tax reform he wants
the kind of healthcare reform he wants
civil asset forfieture
military interventionism
brinksmanship foreign policy
That's just off the top of my head.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:13 pm to ShortyRob
quote:
Close LOL
Let me caveat that last one by saying I think ALL non-profits should lose their tax exempt status
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:14 pm to Centinel
quote:
Satellite and mobile provide internet access, if at a lower quality. But the access is still there.
You can only buy grid power from one provider. You can only buy pumped water from one provider.
Generators and bottled water companies/wells provide electricity and water, if at a lower quality. But the access is still there.
The nature of the services provided is different in convenience, utility, cost, effectiveness, and reliability.
Even leaving aside concerns about political content control and censorship by the regional monopolies/oligarchies, the removal of NN permits these corporations to force competitors in online markets out of business. Netflix is the most obvious example, with the historical actions of ISPs against that company. Guarantee that they will impose high costs to Netflix or to the consumer to use it. Some may create their own "competitor" and throttle/deny access to Netflix at all, permitting only access to their created streaming service. Without the current regulations, the majority of consumers - particularly rural consumers, who are majority conservative, would have no other reasonable option to turn to to retain access to Netflix or other similar services. This action has a highly probable direct negative effect on the conservative base without any countervailing gain. This does nothing good for anyone aside from those who have a financial interest in the ISPs. If it's an ideological point for you - 'all regulations need to end,' or whatever, it's the wrong place to start, as others have said. These protected regional monopolies already exist due to governmental subsidy. Start several decades ago when the taxpayer was charged to provide access. Wait, you can't? Then we need an imperfect solution. Thus, NN. What's your solution? Just accept corporate control?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:14 pm to kingbob
quote:
civil asset forfieture
You can add that bullshite to my list too.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:15 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:
Dafuq?
You will hit your throttle on any network after just a few Netflix movies or a day of heavy online work.
And the cost comparison makes it laughable.
The guy is desperately trying to argue from both sides, that ISP's aren't natural monopolies and in need of reform, plenty of choice and viable options, while also that they are so poisonous with local and state law that they are killing competition.
Its the most absurd gymnastics act of the day. And this place specializes in them.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:16 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:I can't even recall his initial argument. He's too busy trying to convince me that the electric company is a monopoly even though their service can be 100% replaced by alternatives, but the local cable company is not a monopoly because their service can be ~10% replaced by alternatives.
He's desperately trying to salvage his initial argument
All the while being seemingly ignorant to what the word "monopoly" even means.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:18 pm to RollTigers
quote:
Netflix is the most obvious example, with the historical actions of ISPs against that company.
You should probably go back and read the details of this. That was on NetFlix.
quote:
Some may create their own "competitor" and throttle/deny access to Netflix at all, permitting only access to their created streaming service.
And when this happens, I'll happily entertain the idea of using existing anti-trust regulations to force ISPs to divest their media holdings. But you don't enact regulations based on what "might" happen.
quote:
If it's an ideological point for you - 'all regulations need to end,' or whatever, it's the wrong place to start, as others have said.
Nope, it's not. But regulations should exist to address an existing problem, not a problem that might happen.
quote:
These protected regional monopolies already exist due to governmental subsidy.
State and local. Not national.
Again, I won't even bring up the fact they aren't actual monopolies.
quote:
Then we need an imperfect solution.
For what problem?
quote:
What's your solution?
Address the problem that occurs. Not what might occur.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:19 pm to Korkstand
quote:
For good reason. They don't compete with cable/fiber internet providers.
They don't? What can't you access via a mobile provider that you can via a wired ISP?
Still haven't seen an answer to this.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:21 pm to RollTigers
quote:
Generators and bottled water companies/wells provide electricity and water, if at a lower quality. But the access is still there.
The nature of the services provided is different in convenience, utility, cost, effectiveness, and reliability.
What!! Energy companies aren't natural monopolies! You and I all have access to heating oil, candles, matches, and solar panels. GTFO with that nonsense. Government needs to get out of the regulation business no matter the context. the electric companies should have the right to cut a deal with GE to make sure if you use Samsug products you need to pay more. You get hit with an enormous fee for installing solar power and still occasionally needing grid electricity. Let the telephone company cut a deal with Pizza Hut to get a fast lane while you que the phone lines to Dominos or anyone else not paying up. Thats the 'Merican way!
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:22 pm to Turbeauxdog
quote:I didn't st-st-stutter.quote:Dafuq?
For good reason. They don't compete with cable/fiber internet providers.
No one in the history of the world (except maybe Centinel) has ever been stupid enough to consider a mobile or satellite internet provider where cable, no matter how shitty, is available.
Who in their right mind would choose to pay more money for similar speeds but run into their data cap on day 1 rather than hopefully past day 30?
Mobile/satellite providers do not in any way compete with cable/fiber providers. They are only considered an option where cable is not available at all.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:24 pm to Centinel
quote:
They don't? What can't you access via a mobile provider that you can via a wired ISP?
Still haven't seen an answer to this.
They don't understand the word compete is all i can assume
They probably also think Kia doesn't compete with the BMW 7 series
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:26 pm to Centinel
quote:Nothing. What's your point?
Data caps existed prior to Title II. They existed after. So what do they have to do with Title II?
quote:The only thing I don't get is your convoluted argument. Data caps with overage fees and/or exemptions are absolutely against the principles of NN. The current rules had planned to address data caps on a case by case basis to determine whether they were anti-consumer.
Why do you still not get it?
quote:Again, you cannot access HD video (the majority of internet use today) for 99% of the billing period with mobile/satellite providers.
What content can you not access using this providers?
quote:That is asinine, and I absolutely do NOT think that. What in the hell gave you the idea that I do?
You think everyone has a god given right to gig fiber everywhere in the entire country with unlimited data.
This is asinine.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:26 pm to Korkstand
quote:
No one in the history of the world (except maybe Centinel) has ever been stupid enough to consider a mobile or satellite internet provider where cable, no matter how shitty, is available.
What does this have to do with whether mobile or satellite internet is broadband?
quote:
Who in their right mind would choose to pay more money for similar speeds but run into their data cap on day 1 rather than hopefully past day 30?
What does this have to do with monopolies?
quote:
Mobile/satellite providers do not in any way compete with cable/fiber providers. They are only considered an option where cable is not available at all.
Do they meet the requirements of broadband? Yes or no?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:27 pm to Centinel
(no message)
This post was edited on 2/15/18 at 11:50 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:27 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Mobile/satellite providers do not in any way compete with cable/fiber providers. They are only considered an option where cable is not available at all.
Exactly, if you are using it as your primary access to the internet like you would if you had cox or comcast, you are doing so because you lack other options.
A 90 GB a month plan with 25mbps(that you will never come close to getting) for 100 dollars is not competitive with even the worst major county ISP's in an area(where one is available.). Its an absurd notion. They are a niche product and that is how their business model works.
This post was edited on 11/21/17 at 11:29 pm
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:29 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Mobile/satellite providers do not in any way compete with cable/fiber providers. They are only considered an option where cable is not available at all.
In economic terms, they are definitively competitors
Don't think so?
Cool.
Quadruple wired service rates and get back with me
A competitor doesn't have to exist in the same quality band
Chicken competes with filet mignon
Kia competes with BMW
Even blackberry competes with iPhone
Please tell me i don't have to explain this
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:30 pm to Centinel
quote:
A. serve the entire population in a given area
ISPs have to do this?
As I said before, they sorta do, but sorta don't. Because they're not utilities, they get to skirt serving everyone completely and instead get to shoot for B.S. metrics and benchmarks.
Basically, the issue of ISP's is that they get the protections of being a utility without the accountability or customer assurances that come with utility regulation.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:30 pm to kingbob
quote:
That's just off the top of my head.
That wasn’t directed at you. I wouldn’t ask that of Sentrius as well. There are just stupid people who would accept anything he says.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 11:30 pm to Centinel
quote:Then you are not reading the thread.
They don't? What can't you access via a mobile provider that you can via a wired ISP?
Still haven't seen an answer to this.
For the third time now, you cannot access HD video (the majority of today's internet use) for 99% of the billing period via mobile provider.
To use a car analogy, what if your car couldn't take you to work 99% of the fricking time? Does that car compete with one that can reliably take you to work?
My god you're dense.
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