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Started By
Message
re: I want to hear from the Agnostics. What will the secular world eventually evolve into?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:48 am to AggieHank86
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:48 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Government does not drive morality.
They are constantly trying to.
0
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:49 am to Flats
quote:
You're obviously not a deep thinker, but try to grasp what I'm asking you. You made a claim. I don't see a rational basis for your claim. You apparently don't either, because you refuse to support it.
What I'm saying is that if I believe in God and I believe the Bible is the best instruction book we have, then it's rational for me to base my morality on it. That doesn't make it true, but it does make my thought process rational. You don't have that. You're calling things "moral" and "immoral" and your belief system doesn't even support those terms.
So it’s rational to base your morality on a book you have no Logical reason to believe in.
Well, I believe in the lord of the rings. So it’s rational for me to base my morality by that. Thanks, that really clears it up for me.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:50 am to ApexTiger
quote:
Paul said if you burn with lust, then it is better to marry. No where in the bible does is it say all Priests of the church must not marry
and wh0 gave us the appr0ved bib1e in three ninety seven AD?
nowhere does it say YOU MUST MARRY NO MATTER WHAT EITHER. church teaching is church teaching, with that being said,
you are a prod so you are still using a sola scriptura mindset which is wrong t0 begin with. bib1e does n0t say 10ts 0f things that are accepted d0ctrine in a11 churches! 100k it up
st0p baptist predat0rs d0t 0rg
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:51 am to Fat Bastard
quote:
st0p baptist predat0rs d0t 0rg
I think your typewriter broke
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:52 am to AggieHank86
Well whether the government is elected or not doesn’t make it any less government, and as he elaborated on, government is part of society, the driving force if you are being intellectually honest, so you can’t just pull it out of society for the sole purpose of trying to “win” your point. Btw, where do you come up with the idea that society drives morality? Are Christians or people arguing on PT not part of society?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:53 am to AggieHank86
quote:
The golden rule predates Christianity by millenia. The earliest SURVIVING written record of it is found in ancient Egypt and dates to 2000 years BCE.
The concept is essentially universal in human civilization, also being included in Daoism and Confucianism.
Christianity simply incorporates a precept which long-predated it.
I mean, are you really trying to argue the primacy of a timeline on God that exists outside of time, if you were to believe?
Perhaps the best way for "the golden rule," to be accepted, and understood, IS to predate Christianity. It doesn't necessarily matter whether or not Christianity created morals. God isn't only Christianity, he is everything.
Arguing over timeline in regards to God and the message is relatively pointless. And it doesn't "invalidate" Christianity if they weren't the vessel of x, y or z. They don't necessarily have to be. But, taking the Word, they are bearers of truth.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:53 am to Hammer of Rod
quote:
So it’s rational to base your morality on a book you have no Logical reason to believe in.
The second half of your sentence is false.
But in any event, that's how conditional statements work. "If......then" is pretty much a required concept to critical thinking.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:55 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Flats cited a number of immoral policies by government. You will note that none of them were committed by a popularly-elected government.
So our government has never committed an immoral act?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:55 am to Hammer of Rod
Because I don’t need to cherry pick the good parts from an old book of stories to be a good person and neither do you.
______________________________
You cherry pick much?
Just to touch on slavery. You’re right, the Bible doesn’t condone slavery. But rather points to a greater truth. If you own slaves, respect and treat them as you yourself are “slave” to a higher power. If you are a slave work “as unto the Lord”. We are not “slave” to our circumstances, but in all things we are to worship the Lord. Nations were allowed to be enslaved due to their worship of false gods or persecution of Gods people. And even Israel was taken captive due to their own actions. God is Just and MUST punish disobedience.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:58 am to Freauxzen
quote:I simply refuted an assertion that Christianity forms the basis of western civilization. The fundamental precept of that civilization long-predates Christianity.
Arguing over timeline in regards to God and the message is relatively pointless.
Can you argue that this precept was a creation of the Abrahamic God and that such God imprinted that precept into the ROM of every civilization since the dawn of humanity? Sure. I think it is sill, but sure.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 11:11 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:00 am to RiverCityTider
shite ton of folks have died in the name of religion.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:02 am to Ancient Astronaut
Especially secular religion and communistic religion, perhaps that’s redundant
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:03 am to Ancient Astronaut
...and salt and water and gold and women. People kill each other over many things
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:05 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Without any moral absolutes or guide, what’s decent is ever changing
quote:
You see that as a bug.
Many see it as a feature.
If morality is 100% subjective, there is no moral difference between Mother Terissa and Hitler.
If morality is not given to us by a higher authority than ourselves, every horrific crime in history is justified and you have no authority to criticize.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:11 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:
That’s not exactly true. There are cultural norms that come into being that work for certain societies but they may not have much relation at all to what we consider “good” today. And of course, what we consider “good” is almost exclusively based on Christian thought.
You pretty much affirmed his statement with your example. Did you mean to agree with it instead of disagree?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:11 am to RebelExpress38
quote:
If morality is not given to us by a higher authority than ourselves, every horrific crime in history is justified and you have no authority to criticize.
Especially when coupled with Darwinism
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:14 am to AggieHank86
quote:
I simply refuted an assertion that Christianity forms the basis of western civilization.
It does form the basis of western civilization from the probably 400 BC until the 20th century. Arguing the contrary doesn’t make you seem smart.
Postmodernism and post-postmodernism are not Christian and we are rapidly transitioning to those worldviews in the US. Europe has been led there more quickly.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:14 am to RebelExpress38
quote:No, there is no OBJECTIVE moral difference. Within a given system of morals, obviously the two are viewed rather differently.
If morality is 100% subjective, there is no moral difference between Mother Terissa (sic) and Hitler.
quote:Good Lord.
If morality is not given to us by a higher authority than ourselves, every horrific crime in history is justified
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:19 am to the808bass
quote:Again, if you want to argue that the Abrahamic God hardwired the "golden rule" into every human society since the dawn of time, I cannot argue with you. That would be a matter of belief and philosophy that is simply not subject to factual debate.quote:It does form the basis of western civilization from the probably 400 BC until the 20th century
I simply refuted an assertion that Christianity forms the basis of western civilization.
But you are arguing that "Christianity" influenced civilizations 400 years before the birth of Yeshua bar Yusef. That argument is ridiculous on its face.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 11:22 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:
I can think of a relatively recent example. In the 1840s in certain parts of India it was the practice to burn a widow alive at her husbands funeral. This was the cultural norm and was considered “good”.
So what about the Puritans and drowning women they thought were witches? They were Christians, from whom all of the world's morality is supposedly based upon.
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