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re: I want to hear from the Agnostics. What will the secular world eventually evolve into?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:30 am to Brooklyntiger80
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:30 am to Brooklyntiger80
quote:
If you need to be threatened with hell and damnation to do the right thing, then you’re a piece of sh*t
If man is inherently GOOD, why do we need laws to govern us?
1
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:31 am to Flats
Can’t answer the question?
Slavery- moral or no?
Slavery- moral or no?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:32 am to Lg
quote:
If man is inherently GOOD, why do we need laws to govern us?
See, now this is both logical and profound
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:33 am to Flats
quote:If you equate governmental action with the morals of a society, I just don't know what to tell you.
It was a great feature if you were a Jew living in Germany in the 30s. Or a Muslim living in China today. Or a 10 year old girl in the sex trade.
I suspect that most Germans during the Nazi era would have considered the Holocaust to be immoral, had they known about it at the time. That is why the Nazis went to such lengths to hide it.
I suspect that most Han Chinese (not to mention other ethnic minorities) consider the government's treatment of the Uighurs to be immoral.
I have ZERO doubt that an OVERWHELMING majority of the world's population considers it immoral to force a 10yo into the sex trade.
Governments behave immorally all the time.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:34 am to RiverCityTider
There is no secular. The part of the human mind that comprehends existence will always create reasons for mortality. They just call their religion “science”, but it includes superstition and ceremony all the same.
Science and healthcare are the new Catholic Church. They have all the knowledge, money, and cathedrals.
Science and healthcare are the new Catholic Church. They have all the knowledge, money, and cathedrals.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:35 am to RiverCityTider
My question for the non believer:
If a serial killer murders a stranger, science says that's just one group of atoms rearranging another. Nothing more.
So if your entire worldview is centered on science, where do all these opinions about that act come from?
If a serial killer murders a stranger, science says that's just one group of atoms rearranging another. Nothing more.
So if your entire worldview is centered on science, where do all these opinions about that act come from?
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:37 am to concrete_tiger
quote:
Hey, if some voice from the clouds speaks and proves they exist, I'm all ears. Until then, I'll just assume that if there is a creator, he made us to question everything, so we are doing what they wanted anyway.
Barring an event such as the one the Apostle Paul experienced when Jesus confronted Saul of Tarsus on the road to Damascus and Jesus asked Saul why he was persecuting Him (he was exterminating Christians) in all likelihood you'll never have that type of encounter with the Living God. If you want to lock something in your mind for future reference remember what Jesus said,
"Ask and it will be given to you; seek and you will find; knock and the door will be opened to you."
In that ^^^ Bible scripture from Matthew 7:7 Jesus is inviting the individual to make themselves available for a relationship with the Creator, He will not force you into a relationship with Him. In my personal walk with the Lord I can say I've never had the Lord force the relationship between us, but He's always been there when I humble myself before Him and make myself available to hear His word.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:38 am to AggieHank86
quote:
That is why the Nazis went to such lengths to hide it.
Well geez, maybe someday our government will also try to hide their sins.
You alluded to society’s evolving into something like a feature, yet you paint the government that drives the direction as somehow flawed. Seems you want it both ways, or at the very least you are deliberately inconsistent in your argument
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:38 am to Flats
quote:
Oh, so you ARE making a claim. A claim that has no rational basis according to your worldview. That's all I asked; what is the basis for you to make this claim?
I’m stating my opinion. If you have a good argument for why slavery is moral, I’m all ears. I haven’t heard an argument that has convinced me otherwise yet, give it your best shot
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:38 am to Hammer of Rod
quote:
Can’t answer the question?
Slavery- moral or no?
You're obviously not a deep thinker, but try to grasp what I'm asking you. You made a claim. I don't see a rational basis for your claim. You apparently don't either, because you refuse to support it.
What I'm saying is that if I believe in God and I believe the Bible is the best instruction book we have, then it's rational for me to base my morality on it. That doesn't make it true, but it does make my thought process rational. You don't have that. You're calling things "moral" and "immoral" and your belief system doesn't even support those terms.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:39 am to Revelator
quote:
Bingo.
Without any moral absolutes or guide, what’s decent is ever changing and defined by the current whims of the day.
That’s not exactly true. There are cultural norms that come into being that work for certain societies but they may not have much relation at all to what we consider “good” today. And of course, what we consider “good” is almost exclusively based on Christian thought.
I can think of a relatively recent example. In the 1840s in certain parts of India it was the practice to burn a widow alive at her husbands funeral. This was the cultural norm and was considered “good”. The local British official put a stop to it. So, the local elders and priest responded that it was their local custom, tradition, a the way they honored their gods. The British official responded in a somewhat famous letter something to the effect of, “Fine. I understand that is your culture and you are entitled to follow it. Just know that in our culture it is our tradition to take men who burn women and hang them and confiscate their property.” Of course, no further women were burned and today in India, that type of murder is illegal along with all other types.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:39 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
What will the secular world eventually evolve into?
Transhumanism via authoritarian mechanisms. And a powerful ruling elite.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 10:41 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:41 am to AggieHank86
quote:
If you equate governmental action with the morals of a society, I just don't know what to tell you.
You think government is made up of special people that aren't part of society? There weren't government robots that carried these things out, they were people. You say that governments behave immorally (although you admit that's a personal preference) all the time, but governments are just people. People behave immorally all the time.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:41 am to Cossatotjoe
quote:The "golden rule" is the fundamental principle of western morals and philosophy, and Jesus himself acknowledged at Matthew 7.12 that the golden rule succinctly summarizes the entire Old Testament.
Western morals and norms are explicitly Christian.
quote:The golden rule predates Christianity by millenia. The earliest SURVIVING written record of it is found in ancient Egypt and dates to 2000 years BCE.
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
The concept is essentially universal in human civilization, also being included in Daoism and Confucianism.
Christianity simply incorporates a precept which long-predated it.
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 10:44 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:43 am to the808bass
Anytime.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:44 am to Hammer of Rod
If slavery is a step up from the prior condition/existence, some might argue that it is morally beneficial
But that’s none of my business...
But that’s none of my business...
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 10:46 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:45 am to AggieHank86
quote:
You see that as a bug. Many see it as a feature.
Do you think more fatherless homes is a plus to society or a detriment?
Do you think our current cancel environment where a person can lose his livelihood for a differing opinion is a plus or detriment to society?
Do you think people getting paid to not work is a plus or detriment to society?
Do you think a world where social media influencers and pop stars are a greater catalyst on behaviors than a moral code, is a plus or a detriment to society?
This post was edited on 3/11/21 at 10:47 am
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:46 am to AggieHank86
quote:
quote:
Western morals and norms are explicitly Christian.
The "golden rule" is the fundamental principle of western morals and philosophy, and Jesus himself acknowledged at Matthew 7.12 that the golden rule succinctly summarizes the entire Old Testament.
quote:
So in everything, do to others what you would have them do to you, for this sums up the Law and the Prophets.
The golden rule predates Christianity by millenia. The earliest SURVIVING written record of it is found in ancient Egypt and dates to 2000 years BCE.
The concept is essentially universal in human civilization, also being included in Daoism and Confucianism.
Christianity simply incorporates a precept which long-predated it.
Except there are almost no or very few pre-Christian societies where the Golden Rule was actually practiced or codified with the force of law.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:47 am to Padme
quote:Government does not drive morality. Quite the opposite. Society does so.
You alluded to society’s evolving into something like a feature, yet you paint the government that drives the direction as somehow flawed.
Flats cited a number of immoral policies by government. You will note that none of them were committed by a popularly-elected government.
Posted on 3/11/21 at 10:48 am to Hammer of Rod
quote:
If you have a good argument for why slavery is moral, I’m all ears. I haven’t heard an argument that has convinced me otherwise yet, give it your best shot
Nobody is trying to argue that slavery is moral.
The point is that - absent an objective, absolute standard, even one that is incorrect - you have no basis for making an absolute claim that slavery is immoral. It's just your opinion or preference. And you can say people who think slavery is moral are bastards, but once again that's just your opinion.
At the end of the day, neither side is truly "right" or "wrong."
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