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Message
I really would like to understand the pro-choice POV as it relates to life
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:34 pm
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:34 pm
My question: how is a fetus with a heartbeat not a human being?
Please, no snark and no sarcasm. You’ll get none from me. I’d just like to hear the other side’s honest perspective
Please, no snark and no sarcasm. You’ll get none from me. I’d just like to hear the other side’s honest perspective
29
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:36 pm to L.A.
Not to kill your inquiry but it boils down to the right of a woman to play God....sorry man.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:40 pm to Bass Tiger
That’s not what I’m asking at all. I’m asking one specific, limited question about life
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:44 pm to L.A.
quote:
That’s not what I’m asking at all. I’m asking one specific, limited question about life
Doesn’t matter. If you pen them down they’ll eventually admit that whether it’s a viable life it doesn’t matter, the woman has the right to terminate the pregnancy. I’ve been through this argument/discussion so many times and the final word is what I’ve told you.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:52 pm to L.A.
For a lot of people it’s relative to their experience. Many people have no concept of what a developing fetus is, looks like or what biological functions it carries out.
From my perspective, as someone who sees both fetal development and end of life care on a near daily basis, a 2nd-3rd trimester fetus is far more “human” than a terminally ill 93 year old sedated and connected to a ventilator they will never come off of. Tell most people you think a fetus is more functionally alive than a dying elderly person in the ICU and you’ll get a look of shock and disgust, but objectively there’s really no medical or scientific argument against it.
From my perspective, as someone who sees both fetal development and end of life care on a near daily basis, a 2nd-3rd trimester fetus is far more “human” than a terminally ill 93 year old sedated and connected to a ventilator they will never come off of. Tell most people you think a fetus is more functionally alive than a dying elderly person in the ICU and you’ll get a look of shock and disgust, but objectively there’s really no medical or scientific argument against it.
Posted on 6/23/19 at 11:53 pm to Roger Klarvin
Interesting perspective. Thanks
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:08 am to Roger Klarvin
Brain dead patients and those who are dependent on full mechanical ventilation have lost what made them human. An even greater tragedy than abortion IMO are those people who at the end of their lives are kept alive far, far too long by lines, tubes and machines that offer only pain and no hope of recovery.
It’s hard to explain to their families the cruelty they are putting them through, but that’s what it is: Cruel. At least as cruel as abortion, and I’d argue moreso because many times the conscious suffering is much greater.
It’s hard to explain to their families the cruelty they are putting them through, but that’s what it is: Cruel. At least as cruel as abortion, and I’d argue moreso because many times the conscious suffering is much greater.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:12 am to L.A.
It all has to do with people wanting to have promiscuous sex and not be held accountable or responsible to bear the consequences of bearing a child.
Every one of these people know that abortion is wrong and kills the baby. But, they will never admit it. Because if they ever admit it to the public or to themselves, then they will be forced to face what they have done. Or they will be forced to bear an unwanted child. Or they will be forced to not have the promiscuous sex they desire.
It’s all about not wanting to be held accountable and hiding under the cover of “A women’s right to choose” that they all tell themselves so they can live with the decision.
Every one of these people know that abortion is wrong and kills the baby. But, they will never admit it. Because if they ever admit it to the public or to themselves, then they will be forced to face what they have done. Or they will be forced to bear an unwanted child. Or they will be forced to not have the promiscuous sex they desire.
It’s all about not wanting to be held accountable and hiding under the cover of “A women’s right to choose” that they all tell themselves so they can live with the decision.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:23 am to Roger Klarvin
I’m against abortion after 15-20 weeks. And imo the best argument FOR abortion is the evidence Freakonomics lays out that once abortion was legal, roughly 20 years later the crime rate dropped like a rock, and with less unwanted babies, we have less homeless and crime. Some dispute this, but it’s certainly a worthy debate.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:32 am to Lsujacket66
I am MAGA as frick. Abortion is a no win for the right.
Your modern day republican is a 90's era democrat. See Trump.
He is anti-abortion but open to it for rapes and saving women lives.
Most thinking folks fall along those lines. Its bad but necessary in situations.
Forcing the choice/life line on something so grey area is a bad thing.
Your modern day republican is a 90's era democrat. See Trump.
He is anti-abortion but open to it for rapes and saving women lives.
Most thinking folks fall along those lines. Its bad but necessary in situations.
Forcing the choice/life line on something so grey area is a bad thing.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:47 am to TurkeyBaconLeg
quote:
has to do with people wanting to have promiscuous sex and not be held accountable or responsible to bear the consequences of bearing a child.
Lol
There are people well past the age of conceiving a child who are pro life.
It’s sad how blind you are.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:49 am to King
I’d argue it’s pretty black and white for those are pro-life. If life truly begins at conception, and all human life is worth protecting, how conception occurred doesn’t matter at all. And since nobody would argue that forcing someone to have a baby is morally worse than murder, if you’re going to claim all abortion is murder the only logical position is that abortion is never ok under any circumstance.
Now I don’t prescribe to that because it requires a different worldview than my own to possess, but it’s the only logical position from that standpoint.
Now I don’t prescribe to that because it requires a different worldview than my own to possess, but it’s the only logical position from that standpoint.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:55 am to L.A.
You should check out this podcast from last week.
The woman explains repeatedly that’s it’s all about the woman’s right to choose.
The host and pro life guest essentially corner her into saying that viable life, even at 38 weeks means nothing.
Website link to the show
The woman explains repeatedly that’s it’s all about the woman’s right to choose.
The host and pro life guest essentially corner her into saying that viable life, even at 38 weeks means nothing.
Website link to the show
Posted on 6/24/19 at 12:55 am to King
quote:
He is anti-abortion but open to it for rapes and saving women lives.
Most thinking folks fall along those lines. Its bad but necessary in situations.
This rationale is an intentional, tired smokescreen
Just 1% of women obtain an abortion because they became pregnant through rape, and less than 0.5% do so because of incest, according to the Guttmacher Institute.
As for saving a woman’s life ... time again we see stories of women choosing to save their child’s life before their own. It’s as if putting themselves first never enters their minds. But in the rare cases where the mother’s life is, in fact, in danger due to continuing a pregnancy, it can be (and is analyzed in each and every case) the upright and just thing to do to intervene to save the life of the mother. See double effect principle.
In REAL and honest discussions about abortion, however, the above two situations are red herrings.
This post was edited on 6/24/19 at 1:00 am
Posted on 6/24/19 at 1:08 am to L.A.
quote:
I’d just like to hear the other side’s honest perspective
Good luck comprehending it if you get it. I've tried, for years.
I used to hesitate to comment on the abortion issue because I have a penis, and I got tired of being shouted down because I have said penis. But, frick it.
I married my first wife when she was pregnant. We were young and dumb. We wanted a child and intentionally conceived a little girl.
I knew she was a girl and I knew the moment she was conceived. I just knew.
The relationship went downhill after that but we married anyway. I still wanted to get married because I was afraid she would get an abortion and murder my daughter. I knew the marriage was doomed and I would have to pay child support and she would use my daughter against me... But my daughter would be alive.
She'll be 34 in December.
18 months after she was born my wife decided she didn't want to be a wife or mother. Ugly divorce followed as her boyfriend got her pregnant, which I thought was ironic karma, and she fought for custody and support. But I won and got custody and raised my daughter.
With my frame of reference established...
I can almost... almost.. understand a young woman thinking she can't provide for the child or that her budding career might be sidelined and getting an abortion. Almost. And only the first time.
If a woman truly believes that would be the case then she should take precautions. And if, after the first abortion and her instincts to protect her child at ALL COST didn't kick in... If she believes her child would be too much of an inconvenience, her own "happiness" is more important than her child's life, then by all means she should have her tubes tied.
She does not have what it takes to be a mother and should permanently remove that possibility.
/end rant
Posted on 6/24/19 at 4:54 am to Roger Klarvin
quote:
For a lot of people it’s relative to their experience. Many people have no concept of what a developing fetus is, looks like or what biological functions it carries out.
This is why planned parenthood does everything it can to keep mothers from hearing heartbeats and seeing ultrasounds. I forget the exact statistic, but something like 70% of prospective abortion patients change their mind after seeing an ultrasound and hearing a heartbeat.
Planned Parenthood actively through internal training has their staff push people away from ultrasounds and information about the growth of a fetus because statistically if you actually learn about it and see it then you end up not supporting abortion.
The supervast majority of pro abortion people have no children and have never seen their own ultrasound.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:01 am to Lsujacket66
quote:
And imo the best argument FOR abortion is the evidence Freakonomics lays out that once abortion was legal, roughly 20 years later the crime rate dropped like a rock, and with less unwanted babies, we have less homeless and crime. Some dispute this, but it’s certainly a worthy debate.
You know what would really plummet the crime rate and homeless problem? Killing them.
You know that giant tent city in New Orleans under Claiborne full of drug addicts? Just kill them all. Problem solved.
You know the giant stretches of historical beautiful old parts of this city uninhabitable because of crime? Just sweep through there executing everyone with a record or contraband in their homes. Problem solved.
Think about how much better this city would be if we just executed criminals and the homeless on site.
Sure it would be a heineous and brutal and disgusting practice now but I guarantee you in 20 years or so it would just be part of everyday life we a ignore easily with cognitive dissonance. Just like abortion.
And best part is, according to your argument and logic, they don't even have to be criminals or homeless. They just have to be statistically possible to be criminal or homeless dues to correlative statistics.
This post was edited on 6/24/19 at 5:42 am
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:18 am to L.A.
quote:An embryo has a heartbeat. By the same token, so do worms. As some may recall, I posted a while back in another abortion thread:
My question: how is a fetus with a heartbeat not a human being?
quote:. . . but it certainly has a heartbeat
At 45days, this is NOT a human:
Sorry. It just isn't.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:21 am to Nguyener
quote:An abortion of sorts.
You know that giant tent city in New Orleans under Claiborne full of drug addicts? Just kill them all. Problem solved.
You know the giant stretches of historical beautiful old parts of this city uninhabitable because of crime? Just sweep through there executing everyone with a record or contraband in their homes.
Posted on 6/24/19 at 5:26 am to L.A.
You're asking for an answer than doesn't justify their decision. Good luck getting what you seek.
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