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I know a lot of you don't like libertarians, but this might open some eyes;
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:12 pm
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:12 pm
Ludwig von Mises is one of, if not the most important figures in libertarian history.
Now, he was only a member for about a year before he moved to America, but he never disavowed it.
People like to confuse the Libertarian Party as being representatives of all libertarians. They aren't. A whole lot of people in the LP are just there because they want a judgement free society. Individual rights are secondary, so it ends up being just a freak show.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. Now, he was only a member for about a year before he moved to America, but he never disavowed it.
People like to confuse the Libertarian Party as being representatives of all libertarians. They aren't. A whole lot of people in the LP are just there because they want a judgement free society. Individual rights are secondary, so it ends up being just a freak show.
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:39 pm to stuntman
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:41 pm to stuntman
Honestly it’s the only party that will take fiscal conservatives now
This post was edited on 9/25/26 at 12:03 am
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:43 pm to stuntman
nerds
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:47 pm to stuntman
quote:one of the reasons society is so fricked up now -- there is so little judgmenrt
they want a judgement free society
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:53 pm to stuntman
Communism and Libertarianism sound great in theory.
Neither one survive long out in the wild.
Neither one survive long out in the wild.
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:55 pm to Kafka
Agree completely.
A whole lot of us libertarians hate the idea of not judging people's behavior. People like me are for maximum liberty, which would end up leading to a much more responsible society. Right now most of what government does is fund/incentivize shite behavior and sloth, then people act surprised because we get more of it.
Have government massively reduced, especially the welfare state, and you'll see people start to change their behavior fast.
A whole lot of us libertarians hate the idea of not judging people's behavior. People like me are for maximum liberty, which would end up leading to a much more responsible society. Right now most of what government does is fund/incentivize shite behavior and sloth, then people act surprised because we get more of it.
Have government massively reduced, especially the welfare state, and you'll see people start to change their behavior fast.
Posted on 9/24/26 at 9:57 pm to TrueTiger
quote:
Communism and Libertarianism sound great in theory.
Neither one survive long out in the wild.
The very best parts of your life are of an anarchistic nature.
Communism sounds horrible in nature. Egalitarianism itself sounds like a hellscape to me.
Most people today would consider the level of government we had at our founding to be anarchocapistan.
Posted on 9/24/26 at 11:22 pm to stuntman
quote:
The Fatherland Front killed Social Democrats, socialists, and communists.
The aforementioned are the opposite side of the coin in antithesis to Libertarians and Anarchs.
Socialism and communism are dictates, control, big gov, and loss of liberty. For the free thinker Anarchs there is also all the hive-mind group think mentality which they oppose. But these are things that are oppressive to those who want to be left alone, not told how to live their lives, not be told what to think, etc.
The ideaologies clash. Sometimes quite hard.
I think one thing a lot of people don't consider is that so many ideologies have their left and right versions. Their Yin and Yang. And both sides have their scales that range from tame, to beast, to monsters.
This post was edited on 9/24/26 at 11:26 pm
Posted on 9/24/26 at 11:28 pm to Wolfwireless
When people say that fascism is far right and socialism/communism is far left, I cringe.
I see the 2 dimensional political spectrum as a scale of institutionalized coercion. On the far left are things like communism, socialism, fascism. On the very far right are things like anarcho-capitalism, voluntarism, agorism. The center is a constitutional republic. The center right is minarchism. The center left is democracy.
Just the way I conceptualize things.
This post was edited on 9/24/26 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 9/24/26 at 11:40 pm to stuntman
I think part of why people embrace the idea that socialism and communism is far left, is because so many in the far left have embraced those ideologies. And they left wants to portray the right as fascists.
Which is funny, if you actually look into the people who are standing loud and proud under the rainbow flags, Palestine flags, who have an all new form of fascism.
I'd have to do some rearch on the official terms for the Anarchs you've mentioned. I know them more by their train of thought, than by some of the terms you e brought up.
Which is funny, if you actually look into the people who are standing loud and proud under the rainbow flags, Palestine flags, who have an all new form of fascism.
I'd have to do some rearch on the official terms for the Anarchs you've mentioned. I know them more by their train of thought, than by some of the terms you e brought up.
Posted on 9/24/26 at 11:56 pm to TrueTiger
Why did the libertarian cross the road?
Posted on 9/25/26 at 12:32 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Communism and Libertarianism sound great in theory.
Neither one survive long out in the wild.
You do understand this country was basically founded on libertarianism right?
And the further away we get from it, the worse off we all are.
This post was edited on 9/25/26 at 12:33 am
Posted on 9/25/26 at 12:42 am to Wolfwireless
quote:
I think part of why people embrace the idea that socialism and communism is far left, is because so many in the far left have embraced those ideologies. And they left wants to portray the right as fascists.
Which is funny, if you actually look into the people who are standing loud and proud under the rainbow flags, Palestine flags, who have an all new form of fascism.
I'd have to do some rearch on the official terms for the Anarchs you've mentioned. I know them more by their train of thought, than by some of the terms you e brought up.
People who are pro big government are usually that way because they envision themselves as the leader and how they would do things. Thus is only becomes a matter of finding the leader to do so and everything will be perfect.
Of course the reality is that's never going to happen. You're never going to get that perfect leader and even if you managed to find one and get them elected, it's only 8 years.
Anarchy is the perfect system, but it's only in a world without evil. That's definitely not our world. So I find a limited government who's only goal is based around protecting the liberties of the people is the only decent compromise. And I think the constitution does that pretty well in it's overall goals and spirit.
I think where libertarians get a bad rap, some of it brought upon themselves, is they think it means everyone should have almost no government. That couldn't be further from the truth. While that is certainly viable, people should still have the right to create communities as they see fit. Some libertarians are like - oh you shouldn't have community fire, medical and so forth. And if you want that, it's fine. But many people don't and that is still fine. I want fire, local police, etc. People have the right to association. And if someone wants to have a communist society, let them. And they can still maintain their rights under the constitution - if they choose. That's the beauty of freedom in a republic.
On the federal level, I'll vote libertarian if it's not like the dude in 2024. That's another problem, most people vote republican(some democrat) in elections unless it's just bad candidates. Like neocons in 2008, 2012 etc.
Posted on 9/25/26 at 12:51 am to stuntman
Problem is that the party members are generally bonkers from the day it was formed. The red diaper baby who led it for a while didn't help matters because he liked how the Soviet Union could manage an economy better. We see how that worked out.
The Ron Paultards didn't help either. Ron was actually a big spender. His Lake Jackson office cost as much as a Downtown Manhattan office and anyone with half a brain knows someone was getting lots of payola. He lavish earmarks to special interests weren't fiscally conservative either. But Lew Rockwell set all of that up to keep him from being voted out. I personally got to sell two brand new dredges from Dow Chemical because Ron got an earmark to dredge their internal plant canals by using a local geographical reference for the earmark.
The Ron Paultards didn't help either. Ron was actually a big spender. His Lake Jackson office cost as much as a Downtown Manhattan office and anyone with half a brain knows someone was getting lots of payola. He lavish earmarks to special interests weren't fiscally conservative either. But Lew Rockwell set all of that up to keep him from being voted out. I personally got to sell two brand new dredges from Dow Chemical because Ron got an earmark to dredge their internal plant canals by using a local geographical reference for the earmark.
Posted on 9/25/26 at 2:12 am to stuntman
Anyone who dislike libertarians don't like America and what it stands for: Liberty! Haters are people who want to impose their tyrannical rule over us . 
Posted on 9/25/26 at 2:20 am to 3down10
quote:
You do understand this country was basically founded on libertarianism right?
If you mean individualism, I understand that the founders tilted that way rather than collectivism.
I like the tilt to as small a government as can be practical. The more moral and self disciplined the people, the less government you will need.
I'm saying that libertarianism in its purist form where there is only the individual doing what he wishes breaks down in the real world because of the sleeping problem. The individual is out there working, building, accumulating wealth with no government telling him what to do, but eventually he has to sleep. And while he's sleeping other individuals will come and take his stuff.
So, he has to work out something with others and engage in some mutually beneficial arrangements, dare we say, a little collectivism. That way his wealth is secure but he has to trade some of it for that security.
Full tilt collectivism on the other hand has a motivation problem. Since it obliterates the individual, there is no wealth to trade for protection because what's the point of creating wealth you can never own? It will eventually fail because it is too poor to defend itself from the richer and more advanced tribe down the road.
As Aristotle taught us, the golden mean matters. Virtue is achieved when the opposite forces of Collectivism and individualism are balanced.
This post was edited on 9/25/26 at 12:15 pm
Posted on 9/25/26 at 2:55 am to TrueTiger
I think we disagree on the terms "collectivism" and "individualism".
Collectivism is just the idea that some "groups" have more rights than others and individualism is just the idea that everyone has the same Natural Rights, for lack of a better term. So, in no way are individualism and cooperation/society at odds. At least that's the way I see it.
Collectivism is just the idea that some "groups" have more rights than others and individualism is just the idea that everyone has the same Natural Rights, for lack of a better term. So, in no way are individualism and cooperation/society at odds. At least that's the way I see it.
Posted on 9/25/26 at 4:11 am to stuntman
I'm a minarchist. I voted for Harry Browne for President twice. When he passed away the party started changing. I think it became attractive to people who just wanted notariety in politics and couldn't make it in giant parties like Dem or GOP. It was just opportunism on their part.
Posted on 9/25/26 at 4:44 am to stuntman
quote:
Have government massively reduced, especially the welfare state,
My sweet summer child, this will never happen. And gubmin' is only just getting started on this "welfare state" idea.
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