re: "I am the Lord, the God of all mankind...

quote:

---

quote:

---

Antichrist is coming very soon

---

Define very soon, because from my understanding, I doubt it's during my lifetime. A one world government is something that I would absolutely die to prevent.

---

Like others you are confusing Revelation with the epistles 1 John and 2 John, and I doubt you read those epistles because John is clear that the antichrist is already here (at the time of his writing).

This is 1 John 4:3..
“and every spirit that does not confess Jesus is not from God. This is the spirit of the antichrist, which you heard was coming and now is in the world already.”

So I think this forum can collectively stop talking about when the antichrist is coming, because John already explained the antichrist is already in the world.

For good measure here is 2 John 1:7…
“For many deceivers have gone out into the world, those who do not confess the coming of Jesus Christ in the flesh. Such a one is the deceiver and the antichrist.”

So I hope you and everyone can understand that the antichrist is present and has already gone into the world to deceive people. This is not a future event.

All the time.

quote:

---

Justice is not extortion.

If a convicted criminal was standing for the judge and pleaded for sorrow over the crime for mercy or else he would receive the penalty deserved, that wouldn’t be extortion.

You are a sinner—someone who has committed cosmic treason against the high-king of the universe—and you deserve eternal judgement for it. The message of faith and repentance is the message of forgiveness and pardon. If you stop your sin and accept the pardon offered through Jesus, you will receive it. If you reject the pardon offered, you have only yourself to blame for what awaits you, just like the convicted criminal that refuses the mercy offered.

---

Beautifully said.

quote:

---

A friend of mine has a theory that the antichrist the Pope. It was a rather compelling argument, and if that is the case, yes the pope is already here and has been.

---

Does that argument include the Pope not confessing that Jesus has come in the flesh?

quote:

---

what is the time frame you see for Revelations

---

The Apocalypse is a singular noun. In English it’s just “Revelation”. No need to add an “s” as that would technically be incorrect. I think the time frame for when it was written is during the life of Paul and was written before the canonical gospels.

quote:

---

Beautifully said.

---

It takes a sick mind to see anything beautiful in the premise:

quote:

---

You are a sinner—someone who has committed cosmic treason against the high-king of the universe—and you deserve eternal judgement for it.

---

Personally, I don't want any part of that.

quote:

---

I'm not a convicted criminal, so your metaphor falls apart.

---

But you are. If you do not trust in the one who can make pardon for your sins against God, you stand condemned already, as Jesus said:

He who believes in Him is not condemned; but he who does not believe is condemned already, because he has not believed in the name of the only begotten Son of God. -John 3:18

God requires perfect obedience to the law. Anyone who breaks it in one aspect has broken the whole law and deserves eternal judgement. Your rejection of God and His worship has already led to you breaking the first 4 commandments.

If you’ve ever broken a just law in this country (speeding?) you have broken the 5th commandment; ever hated someone in your heart, you’ve broken the 6th commandment; ever had premarital sex or even lusted after someone not your wife, you’ve broken the 7th commandment; ever stolen anything at all, pirated music or movies, then you’ve broken the 8th commandment; ever lied or slandered or gossiped about someone, you’ve broken the 9th commandment; and if you’ve ever had an inordinate desire for something that didn’t belong to you, you’ve broken the 10th commandment.

You have sinned like everyone else, so you stand condemned already. That why you need to turn to Jesus Christ as the only one who can pay the sin-debt you owe to God.

quote:

---

Here's the problem, you just telling me that doesn't make me believe it.

---

I agree. You must be born again first. You need a work of God’s Spirit to change you and give you eyes to see and ears to hear the truth; you need new affections for God. Pray to Him and ask for this.

quote:

---

Perhaps if I had been indoctrinated with all that as a child, it would make sense to me. But as an adult looking at it objectively, it simply looks like ridiculous bullshite. It smacks of some stupid sci-fi or fantasy movie.

---

Adults come to know the Lord for the forgiveness of their sins all the time. We have several people in our small church who God saved as adults, who had little to no understanding of Christianity beforehand (no “indoctrination”). Call out to the Lord, recognizing your need for salvation, and you will receive it.

quote:

---

"Cosmic treason"? Really? Before I'm even born into the world? I just find that completely unbelievable.

---

Yes, really. You have broken the law of the King of all creation. You have set yourself upon the throne of your life instead of the one who made you and is worthy of your worship. That is “cosmic treason”.

You don’t have to focus on original sin at this time, either. You are an adult who has sinned greatly against God as an adult. You are doing so even right now. You will be judged for your law-breaking as an adult regardless of what your state was before being born. That’s why you stand condemned. Turn to the Jesus Christ and you will have forgiveness.

quote:

---

Now you're saying I have to have faith before I can be forgiven for something I don't believe I did.

---

Many people stand before human judges convinced that their crime isn’t a crime. That doesn’t change the outcome. God has given us the standard of His law to show us where we have sinned and has given us His Sin to show us how we can be forgiven.

quote:

---

None of what you posted actually works towards encouraging belief without the threat of eternal damnation. That's why it looks like extortion.

---

Extortion typically requires some sort of payment or cost. God offers you salvation freely. The only price also for your salvation was paid by God Himself, by Jesus willingly taking on a human nature, obeying the law perfectly in our place, and dying a painful and shameful death in the cross to wipe away our sin.

Hell is what we all deserve just like the convicted criminal deserves jail. Offering pardon is not extortion.

quote:

---

When I have asked for any kind of reasons to believe outside of the threat of damnation, I'm given the circular reasoning that I just have to have faith in order to believe.

---

There are many reasons to believe, but what you are talking about seems more to your capacity or ability to believe. As I said, pray to God and cry out to Him to forgive you for your rejection of Him and His son, and He will answer you.

quote:

---

None of it makes any sense to the non-indoctrinated. I'd be lying to you if I said I did believe in all that stuff about sinning, judgement and eternal damnation. I have been exposed to the Word, and yet I still don't believe because, frankly, it all looks bizarre and ridiculous.

---

I know it does. You have been blinded to the truth by your sin and think the cross of Christ (the gospel of sin and salvation) is foolish. That’s what the Bible says of the “natural man”. It is why you must be “born again”, and that is why you need to seek that new birth from above while it may be found. When you die, the offer of forgiveness will expire and it will be too late.

quote:

---

I believe in God as the creative force of the universe, just not all the Christian take on Him.

---

The demons have that same level of faith. They know there is a God, but they do not worship Him or His Son, and do not rely on Him for forgiveness.

As someone made in the image of God, who has feelings of guilt in your life that are unanswered, and unresolved, and as someone who has perceived that there is a God, you need to turn away from your disobedience to him, to see that your sins deserve everlasting punishment, and to cry out to God to forgive you through the sacrifice of Jesus Christ on the cross to pay the penalty your sins deserve.

I hope you do.

quote:

---

You really don't understand, belief has to come first, otherwise it's all just performative. I can't sincerely ask for salvation if I don't believe I need to be saved

---

I agree that belief has to come first, which is why I'm saying you need to ask for it. Christians struggle with belief, as well, and need to ask the Lord to strengthen their faith. We struggle with indwelling sin and doubt all the time and need the Lord's help. The unbeliever needs that help just as much, but you need to recognize your sinfulness (which is why I went through the law) and then cry out for that help.

quote:

---

Your god offers a choice: Walk with Him or be eternally damned. That's not a free choice, there's some amount of duress there at least.

---

Damnation isn't a choice, though, and that's what I'm trying to communicate. Damnation is the default end result for every single person who has sinned against a holy God.

It's not as if there are two roads you can choose to drive on, one leading to a cliff with death at the end, and another leading to Disney World, Bass Pro Shops, or whatever someone might find as the happiest place on earth. Everyone is already driving down the road to destruction and are being warned that if they don't stop, turn around, and find the path to paradise, they will crash and burn. Everyone is already choosing the path that leads to destruction, and the warning is to turn back. That's what I'm telling you now: turn back.

I previously used the example of an already convicted felon awaiting the sentence. You already deserve to be locked away for eternity because of your sin against God, so that isn't a "choice" at this point. The only choice you have is to accept the free offer of pardon from God through Jesus Christ and be set free, or to receive what you already are due.

quote:

---

Again, you show very little understanding of the issue at hand. You seem to be blinded by your beliefs and can't comprehend what it is to not believe. I would never seek the new birth, as you call it, before believing in it. And you say I can't believe in it until seek it.

---

You are wanting to delve into the behind-the-scenes work of God on this. I'm fine to do that, but at the end of the day, whether you know how it works or not, you are still left with the choice to repent and believe in Jesus or not.

The behind-the-scenes act of the new birth is that the Spirit works through the preaching of the gospel to the unconverted, opening their spiritual eyes to their sinfulness and need for salvation, and through that work they have the desire to cling to Christ as their savior. So, ultimately everyone needs the Spirit's work in them to be saved, because the natural man cannot understand these things and naturally wants to reject them.

On the surface, though, everyone has the responsibility to believe. It's a command by God to believe in Christ, so it is disobedience not to do so, but it is also a command to pursue Him. You are making the excuse that you need to believe before you can pursue. I'm telling you that you have the obligation to pursue salvation as a command, but also out of your own self-interest. Whether you believe in Hell or not is irrelevant to whether or not you are heading there without a pardon, just as a convicted criminal who does not believe he is guilty won't avoid his punishment due to his willful ignorance and resistance to the truth.

You are a sinner in need of God's gracious forgiveness through the sacrificial work of Jesus Christ on the cross, who willingly died to give us eternal life.

quote:

---

And I certainly don't believe in some pantheon of devils, angels, lesser gods, etc... That's all so Bronze Age.

---

I know that the truth offends you and seems foolish. The point I was making was that even the demons know God is God, but still refuse to worship Him. Many in the Scriptures saw the miracles performed by Jesus and wanted to kill Him instead of worship Him. An intellectual knowledge alone is not enough.

quote:

---

And if you worship Jesus instead of God, you've broken the 1st commandment, and if you've forgotten the Sabbath (Saturday) and to keep it holy, you've broken the 4th commandment...

Even if I were to accept the Abrahamic God as the one God, I'm not so sure I'd go with the Jesus version. It seems so heretical.

---

The Old Testament pointed to Jesus Christ as the fulfillment of God's covenant promises. He was the fulfillment of the promise made to Adam and Eve in the garden at the beginning. All of the sacrifices pointed to His once-for-all sacrifice. Jesus spent a considerable amount of His earthly ministry showing people that He was the Messiah that was prophesied in the Old Testament.

quote:

---

I'm sorry you've wasted so much type on me, though. Your approach of, "Seek and you will believe" is kind of senseless, however, as it seems to put the cart before the horse. I'm disinclined to seek that in which I don't believe.

---

I haven't wasted anything. You have now received the truth, and I hope you accept it. I hope the Lord works a mighty work in your heart through it, and that you come to see your need for peace with God through Jesus Christ. You are a sinner. Your sins are offensive to a holy God. Your sins deserve damnation like a murderer deserves jail or the death penalty. You are guilty and are currently like the person in denial that there is a judge and that he will condemn you for your crimes. You need to see that you are guilty and that the only way to avoid the "wages" of your sin is to have an advocate step in front of the judge and plead your case. Jesus is the only one who can do that. He will not only plead your case but ensure you are set free with pardon and forgiveness so that you can avoid the damnation that is coming to you if you but only call out to Him to do so. Do it today, while the offer is in front of you!