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re: How soon before Trump starts arresting crooked lawyers and Judges for obstruction?

Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:33 pm to
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77270 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

bullshite. Judges aren't special and they can face consequences just like everybody else.
Exactly.

He acts like judges are infallible and shouldn’t be held accountable for poor legal judgement.

I highly doubt he would say the same thing about law enforcement officers.
quote:

When societies start opening the door to punish LEIs for unpopular actions (especially in eras of populism), bad things happen.

What a joke.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
34286 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:33 pm to
Thats not the way.

You go for their jobs, impeachment, bar complaints, sanctions from a higher court, etc. And even if unsuccessful, you tie them up with fighting for their very survival. Limiting other damage, by sending a message to others willing to step out of their lane, due to no perceived consequences

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:33 pm to
quote:

This all happened during Trump’s first term.

Biden's first term, too.

These TROs have existed as long as the power has existed. Very few people have argued that Congress may need to scale back this power a bit. However, that would, again, be Congress acting, not the Executive unilaterally.

I'll give an example of why this punitive system you want won't work. Look at the response to Roe until Hodges. All of those judges who were overruled over a 40-50 year period, would have been punished for making these decisions that weren't legally sound. No case would ever be permitted to make it up to the Supreme Court, for this reason. The strategy of pushing, pushing, and pushing more until they could get it overturned would be impossible. We would be left with Roe and no meaningful way to have it reviewed (out of fear that any judge not falling in line would be punished).
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:34 pm to
quote:

bullshite. Judges aren't special and they can face consequences just like everybody else.


That's already in our current system, on multiple levels.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
87383 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:34 pm to
I'm just amused by "If we do ____, bad things start happening"

Yeah unlike *gestures at everything for the last 10 years*
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

He acts like judges are infallible

I literally never said not implied anything of the sort.

quote:

What a joke.

It was a historical statement.

Hell, the misquoted "The first thing we do, let's kill all the lawyers" from Shakespeare addresses this exact scenario
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77270 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:35 pm to
quote:

That's already in our current system, on multiple levels.

As I pointed out, no it isn’t.

There hasn’t been a single federal judge impeached for poorly rendered or blatantly incorrect legal rulings.

And don’t you dare try to say it doesn’t happen.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
87383 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

You go for their jobs, impeachment, bar complaints, sanctions from a higher court, etc. And even if unsuccessful, you tie them up with fighting for their very survival. Limiting other damage, by sending a message to others willing to step out of their lane, due to no perceived consequences



It doesn't work. Monied interests will defend them, the judiciary will oppose any effort at meaningful sanction, bar associations will dispense with the complaints.

The simple reality is that they can crush us with ultimately unsuccessful allegations in a way we cannot reciprocate. They have the administrative state, corporate interests, media, academia, etc. It will take a long time to break that stranglehold. Until then, we cannot respond in kind and get similar deterrent results.
Posted by HagaDaga
Member since Oct 2020
7889 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

Libertarians did what ?
quote:

SlowFlowPro

Brah...you are may not like the democrat name tag, but you still lean far-left.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

I'm just amused by "If we do ____, bad things start happening"

I was clearly being euphemistic, referencing my first post.

There is a reason that whenever authoritarians take over, one of their first moves is to either create a new supreme legal body or overtake control of it.

Left-authoritarians, right-authoritarians, random African or Asian warlords, it is a very common pattern.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77270 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:37 pm to
quote:

I'm just amused by "If we do ____, bad things start happening"
Yea, SFP sure as frick has no problem with LEOs facing consequences based on public views, no matter the negative consequences for society.

But judges?

Oh no, that would have way too significant of ramifications.

Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:39 pm to
quote:

, but you still lean far-left.


I consider Trump's economics to be leftist
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:40 pm to
quote:

Yea, SFP sure as frick has no problem with LEOs facing consequences based on public views

Public views? No.

A factual basis of violating the law? Yes.

If judges break a law, I have already said I feel they should face the punishment for violating that specific law.

Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
87383 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:41 pm to
quote:

I'll give an example of why this punitive system you want won't work. Look at the response to Roe until Hodges. All of those judges who were overruled over a 40-50 year period, would have been punished for making these decisions that weren't legally sound. No case would ever be permitted to make it up to the Supreme Court, for this reason. The strategy of pushing, pushing, and pushing more until they could get it overturned would be impossible. We would be left with Roe and no meaningful way to have it reviewed (out of fear that any judge not falling in line would be punished).


Yeah this frames the issue well. If you're on the right, your choices to avoid injustice are to wait 49 years and hope for a win, or just go ahead and lose.
Posted by Scruffy
Kansas City
Member since Jul 2011
77270 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:42 pm to
quote:

Yeah this frames the issue well. If you're on the right, your choices to avoid injustice are to wait 49 years and hope for a win, or just go ahead and lose.


Best summary of an SFP position I’ve ever read.
Posted by Pettifogger
I don't really care, Margaret
Member since Feb 2012
87383 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:43 pm to
quote:


I was clearly being euphemistic, referencing my first post.

There is a reason that whenever authoritarians take over, one of their first moves is to either create a new supreme legal body or overtake control of it.

Left-authoritarians, right-authoritarians, random African or Asian warlords, it is a very common pattern.


I understand what you're saying. I think it is a grounded, sensible way to look at things.

It's the type of sensible approach that has seen us get our arse handed to us repeatedly over the last half century.
Posted by RobbBobb
Member since Feb 2007
34286 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

Monied interests will defend them

Thats why they took out USAID first

They cant pay someones way, if they are scrambling to pay their own mortgage
Posted by Flats
Member since Jul 2019
28178 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:44 pm to
quote:

That's already in our current system, on multiple levels.


If a punishment is never used then it doesn't really exist.
Posted by Tantal
Member since Sep 2012
19821 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:46 pm to
quote:

How soon before Trump starts arresting crooked lawyers and Judges for obstruction?

No President can arrest a judge for failing to rule in his favor. Just keep appealing these shitbird judges' rulings up the judicial chain.
Posted by SlowFlowPro
With populists, expect populism
Member since Jan 2004
477219 posts
Posted on 2/10/25 at 1:47 pm to
quote:

If you're on the right, your choices to avoid injustice are to wait 49 years and hope for a win, or just go ahead and lose.


In Scruffy's system, there would be no path to "avoid injustice" in the face of a decision like Roe. Any judge that "ruled illegally" would be punished
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