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Posted on 3/1/26 at 6:28 am to AlterEd
quote:
Amazing that they apparently never even pulled these birds out.
There's never been a need to. The thing is so damned good (and expensive) that even at 30 years old its still peerless. The only way we would ever need them is direct conflict with a country that has a fully operational force of 4th Gen fighters and even in that space, the raptors would have air dominance in no time.
It also is a stupidly expensive plane and theres no need to risk one when the 15's are still easily handling the air dominance role.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 6:28 am to Victor R Franko
quote:
Machine gun
Name a country that conquered its neighbors and kept them conquered for an extended period of time. Because it had machine gun and its neighbors didnt.
Same with A bomb. We had it for 5 years before the Russians had it. But we didn't use it to press an advantage.
I'm thinking more about the Comanche use of the horse in North America. Or the Roman chariot. Or the English long bow. Or maybe gunpowder in feudal China. Like a game changer that a nation had the political will to exploit for decades or even generations.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 6:50 am to No Colors
I watched the 35 pilots train at Luke Air Base in Arizona for a good number of years. Impressive aircraft.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 7:15 am to rmnldr
quote:
quote:
but the F-22’s are the best and most advanced aircraft ever made.
No.
OP is on the right track. The F-35’s dominance combined with other intelligence nodes means full spectrum dominance.
There is a literal act of congress that prohibits the US from selling F-22s to even our closest allies, and we all know that we're selling F-35s to basically everyone.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 7:17 am to No Colors
We have been a Uniglobal superpower for a while now.
I’ve been telling you guys. You don’t listen.
We are unmatched
I’ve been telling you guys. You don’t listen.
We are unmatched
Posted on 3/1/26 at 7:19 am to panama city tigerfan
quote:
The 22 is far superior to the 35.
Yeah. Don’t we sell the 35? I don’t hear much about us selling the 22.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:03 am to baldona
quote:
You can shite on the US MIC all you want, but compared to anybody else it’s not even close.
Yes, the F-35 is great.
But as said it really takes:
1.) great intel provided by Israel
2.) great technology provided by US
3.) great training provided by US
4.) fantastic operations, logistics, and execution by US and Israel
Even if another country like Russia or China has similar tech, they still have to have training, operations, logistics, and execution to carry it out. It’s clear they aren’t close in those regards
Our ability to integrate from kinetics to non-kinetic (ie cyber and electronic warfare, space), technology, training, combined arms, logistics is unparalleled. China is the only nation that "on paper" matches us technologically although they don't have a blue water navy yet, but will soon. The big difference is they aren't battle tested, so who knows how they will operate in a large scale conflict.
The game changer in all of it is AI and more importantly quantum computing. Whoever reaches full quantum capability and integration becomes nearly impossible to defeat.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:09 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
There's never been a need to.
This. When you do ops in enemy airspace the enemy learns a lot about your planes whether they get their arse kicked or not, and that knowledge is valuable.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:12 am to panama city tigerfan
quote:
The 22 is far superior to the 35
No, it isn’t.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:12 am to BrownLeft Shoe
quote:
There is a literal act of congress that prohibits the US from selling F-22s to even our closest allies, and we all know that we're selling F-35s to basically everyone.
And?
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:12 am to No Colors
quote:
How far will we take it? What can this one weapons system allow us to do? How long will we have to press this advantage before Russia or China exports a technology that checks it?
What is a comparable technology that made one nation essentially invulnerable to another? The long bow? The three deck man o war? The horse?
I'm sure the US has some unmanned stealth aircraft prototypes with advanced weapons systems they could throw in the mix if they wanted to step on the gas a little bit.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:15 am to AlterEd
quote:
Amazing that they apparently never even pulled these birds out.
Such a good fighter that the F-35 is beating it in every metric while the 22 is relegated to performing rearguard missions or in the case of previous conflicts as a stealthy AWACS platform.
This post was edited on 3/1/26 at 8:15 am
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:20 am to Captain Rumbeard
quote:
Saw something a little while ago saying F-35's took down Mig 29's today.
Just leave the F-14’s alone!
This post was edited on 3/1/26 at 8:21 am
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:22 am to No Colors
quote:
How much of what we're seeing now is directly because of F-35?
Maybe (just maybe) this might be a pretty badass system.
I’ve listened to a ton of podcasts from pilots that flew/fly the thing. They all refer to it as a system. They all talk about Battlespace Awareness. They all gush about it. When it gets brought up as a dog fighter, they all say it’s completely capable and remind people of a F-35 gets into a turning fight, something is wrong.
It appears, what they aren’t telling you, is none of that matters because this thing can go wherever it wants whenever it wants without restrictions. And you still have F-22s to provide air cover to eliminate and high profile assets. And then you can bring the new F-15s after that can carry like 16 missiles and just shoot until they get tired.
Amazing what happens with competent leaders running the show.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 8:24 am to BrownLeft Shoe
quote:
There is a literal act of congress that prohibits the US from selling F-22s to even our closest allies, and we all know that we're selling F-35s to basically everyone.
Those are export variants. The avionics are modified and some of the higher end technology is removed.
They are 2 totally different platforms. The F-35 is a multi-role platform. It can perform deep strike, SEAD (suppression of enemy defenses), escort, etc. It also has an AF, Marine and navy variant.
The F-22 is primarily a fighter.
It's not an either or discussion.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 11:32 am to rmnldr
It goes to show you what plane we think is more important to our ariel defense strategy, the best thing about the F-35 is its ability to stealthily deliver our advanced weapon systems. Against threats like Iran, that is only slightly more strategically useful than an F-15E doing the same job, as Iran's AA radar and SAM capabilities are marginally effective at best, we're basically comparing minimal casualties with F-15Es vs no casualties with F-35s, and if we want the F-35s to remain stealthy they can't carry nearly the ordinance of F-15Es as you can't mount ordinance on the F-35s external hardpoints and retain stealth capability. The best thing about the F-22 is its ability to rapidly achieve air superiority/supremacy and completely ground an enemies Airforce in no time. In a near peer conflict with say Russia or China, one is much more impactful than the other. 1 sortie of F35s can only do so much damage to these adversaries, a sortie of F22 can eliminate a huge portion of their SU-57 and J-20s respectively, which greatly reduces their defensive capabilities allowing non-stealth aircraft with greater ordinance carrying capabilities to operate with impunity.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 11:36 am to BayouCowboy
quote:
It's not an either or discussion.
Agreed, but why would we legally prohibit F-22 sales if not for thinking that the F-22 is more important and better than the F-35? We're basically saying that we don't mind allies having top of the line SEAD and ATG attack capabilities, but worlds-best air superiority fighters are for us alone.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 11:37 am to No Colors
F-35 has proven to be an excellent multi-role fighter. Israel showed the world last year that it’s unwise to frick with anyone that has these in their fleet.
AEGIS and the technology to integrate tracking and combat systems into a consumable format.
Our ability to bring all of this information inputs from a powerful ecosystem of satellites, radar, Orion aircraft, etc to the warfighter is a game changer.
That kind of tech a big part of how the F-35 is so lethal. It can destroy you long before you ever see it.
quote:
What is a comparable technology that made one nation essentially invulnerable to another? The long bow? The three deck man o war? The horse?
AEGIS and the technology to integrate tracking and combat systems into a consumable format.
Our ability to bring all of this information inputs from a powerful ecosystem of satellites, radar, Orion aircraft, etc to the warfighter is a game changer.
That kind of tech a big part of how the F-35 is so lethal. It can destroy you long before you ever see it.
Posted on 3/1/26 at 11:43 am to BrownLeft Shoe
quote:
Agreed, but why would we legally prohibit F-22 sales if not for thinking that the F-22 is more important and better than the F-35? We're basically saying that we don't mind allies having top of the line SEAD and ATG attack capabilities, but worlds-best air superiority fighters are for us alone.
F-22 is export controlled by congress. And what we have found is that the extra performance of the Raptor isn’t entirely necessary when your enemy can’t fricking see you at all - but your display and even your helmet visor allows you to see every bit of live data collected from every source we have.
The F-35 features a lot of tech that will be the backbone of our future unmanned fleet.
The future isn’t dog fighting. We have the Raptor, F-15, and F-16 for that. And the F-35 is no slouch in that area either.
The future is lethality and range without detection and without pilots. Thats where the 6th gen aircraft investment is heading.
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