re: How Free Trade Took Down the American Middle Class

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It is odd that you criticize me for making a sweeping generalization and then say the middle class Americans that are making less money,…”do so out of their failure to adapt.” Do you even think about applying your own criticisms to your arguments?

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This was our standard discussion prior to MAGA when discussing black people and their economic troubles (in the face of the left wanting redistributive policies against institutional arguments like the ones MAGA relies on now).

And you're mischaracterizing what I said. I said

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You're making a sweeping generalization that isn't necessarily true in the aggregate, and a good portion of those "making less money" do so out of their failure to adapt.

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In response to this:

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Lower and middle class Americans make less money,

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The "middle class" makes more money now than ever, in the aggregate. But that depends on how you define "the middle class" (which has been a recurring meme for almost 20 years on here).

You also didn't note these specifics:

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As has been shown ITT, there are still tons of opportunities nationwide for these people in trades. They just refuse the jobs (or are disqualified due to prior bad decision-making).

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Middle class jobs are there for the taking. Industry is begging people to take them. They're just a little harder and more labor intensive than lower-level manufacturing, so these people you reference won't take them. These are good, union jobs with benefits, the type of jobs leftists (and leftist arguments) dream of).

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However, the relationship between the US and China is not a free market with fair trade, it has been perverted and “regulated “ to transfer wealth and value from middle class Americans to China and unscrupulous business leaders and investors.

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Read the Sowell and Friedman I've posted ITT.

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Well we will see if your ilk in Congress slow plays Trump's initiatives. If they do, God help you in 2028.

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Update: libertarians aren't getting elected much in 2028, either.

We've all seen how MAGA has turned on Massie and Paul, too.

I do not believe I am mischaracterizing anything, you want to say it is a failure of middle class Americans to work harder and learn more to get a good manufacturing job and own a home. I disagree, there are leaders that are enriching themselves through policies and actions that damage these peoples chances of owning a home, and a chief example of this is the “business” relationship between China and the US.

You keep trying to say everything is better, …”The middle class makes more money than ever” but the reality of our everyday middle class lives is NOT better, not at the grocery store, not at the gas pump, not at the school board, not at the bank trying to get a mortgage, not on payday, and people are angry. This genuine anger led to the election of Trump and many people are very happy he is seeking to address these things,…we will see if he is successful.

Also, people like you that talk down to these concerns only serve to enrage people more. It really does not seem to me that you want to be convincing anyone of your point of view, you just want to try to talk down to people and then Pat yourself on the back because you see yourself as “smart”.

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You keep trying to say everything is better, …”The middle class makes more money than ever” but the reality of our everyday middle class lives is NOT better, not at the grocery store, not at the gas pump, not at the school board, not at the bank trying to get a mortgage, not on payday, and people are angry.

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Most of these are very recent events and, again, due to government intervention, not the free market. Printing trillions for other economic redistribution efforts has consequences.

It has little, if anything, to do with China.

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people like you that talk down to these concerns only serve to enrage people more.

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Yes, I agree their emotions have overtaken their logic. Trust me, if anyone knows on this board, I do.

People have daily absolute fricking meltdowns for me simply maintaining the same principles that were celebrated on this board 2005-2016.

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It really does not seem to me that you want to be convincing anyone of your point of view

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When people reject capitalism for leftism/help from the state, and rely on emotions instead, it definitely becomes harder to explain the value of freedom/capitalism.

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you just want to try to talk down to people

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The only people I have done that are ones either melting into insanity or just attacking me due to the aforementioned emotions.

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ou can't ignore the fact that the average home in 1950 was smaller than 1000 sq ft, no garage, no AC, etc.

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I didn't ignore that, but we can spell it out. If the average was 1000 sqft that comes to $7.40 per sqft. In today's inflated times, that's roughly $98.86 today. So $9900 would be the same today.

The median price per square foot in the US is around $233. That's $233,000 for the 1000 sqft home.

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What does it tell us that home ownership rates are higher today than they were in 1950?

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44% in 1940
55% in 1950
65% in 2024

The price-to-income ratio has risen from ~2.2 in 1950 to 4-5 today, suggesting ownership reflects borrowing capacity more than economic ease.

Available credit. Certainly not wellbeing.

These are all technological developments.
You forgot only 3 or 4 tv channels.

So now we get gadgets and no retirement. Mindless entertainment while trading food for medicine.

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You seriously believe the general well-being (or economic well-being) of the average American was better in 1950 than it is today? JFC - did the breathtaking technological developments of the last 75 years just pass today's population by?

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They're adapting their arguments to the same theme you see from Leftists who move to Europe and promote it over living in the US.

"life is too abundant in the US"

"You learn to live more with less in Europe"

"having fewer choices is so much better"

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They're adapting their arguments to the same theme you see from Leftists who move to Europe and promote it over living in the US.

"life is too abundant in the US"

"You learn to live more with less in Europe"

"having fewer choices is so much better"

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And apparently technology has only improved gadgets and entertainment.