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Started By
Message
re: How Free Trade Took Down the American Middle Class
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:16 am to RiverCityTider
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:16 am to RiverCityTider
quote:
housing costs exploded because wages stagnated while investors and speculators turned homes into poker chips.
"investors and speculators" are a small part of the total pie, even today.
quote:
it’s flooding the market with cheap imports that gutted manufacturing jobs,
Replacing them with better, higher-paying jobs in the aggregate.
quote:
slashing the earning power needed to buy that ‘bigger home’ in the first place.
Then how can so many people afford the inflated houses today?
quote:
A U.S.-only built house might cost more, sure, but at least the workers could afford it back when labor had value.
So you want houses to cost more so...even fewer people today could afford them?
quote:
The income-to-home-value mess isn’t just supply; it’s a middle class squeezed by globalism’s race to the bottom.
You keep using MAGA catcphrases while you contradict yourself
If house construction costs more AND we use government to inflate wages, guess what that will do to housing prices? It will skyrocket.
0
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:19 am to BCreed1
quote:quote:
Housing has gone up in large part due to supply constraints due to zoning restrictions, especially in larger markets. If anything, free trade reduces housing costs.
No it doesn't.
I don't even think you understand what is being discussed, at this point.
Less government will 100% reduce housing costs, specifically less government in this particular area. Zoning is intended to manipulate residential housing costs, especially single family zoning.
quote:
You mean like in the 1950s?
You can't build houses today like the 1950s. Codes have been updated quite a few times since then, which is another example of government increases housing costs. Now, insurance would likely have resolved this problem via private regulation, but the fact remains that houses aren't build like the 1950s anymore.
quote:
Average family income $4,400 per year. Average cost of a 3 bedroom house $7,900, less than 2x a families income.
Link your data and show the comparison directly. I imagine comparable housing today is about the same as median salary.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:26 am to Grumpy Nemesis
quote:
The 50s were awesome in many ways but let's not lose sight of the fact that this is in large part due to the fact that almost all of our worldwide competition had just been blown up the prior decade. We the equivalent of the only store on main street that didn't get destroyed by the tornado. OF COURSE we were kicking arse!!
Correct.
I posted something similar on page 2
quote:
No I understand this economic model of the 50s-70s was an outlier due to the world rebuilding from WW2 and our investment in ensuring the USSR didn't win the Cold War.
It's an unrealistic, halcyon view that requires devolution in both our economy, standard of living, and general conditions around the globe. The world has changed and those who teach their kids to live in an outdated mindset are destroying their children's future.
Pax Americana has allowed the world to live in unprecedented peace and stability for 70 years. THAT is a much bigger factor (than "free trade") in allowing countries that were developing in the 70s to become developed into the 2000s. That and the modern economy that allows countries to flourish without natural resources.
Ignore China, as this causes such an emotional reaction with MAGA. Look at Taiwan and the other 3 Asian Tigers. India is making inroads. Even Communists countries like Vietnam are improving.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:30 am to Quatre Pot
quote:
Where I grew up there were 100s of men who left for a week or 2 or a time to work offshore in the oil and gas industry. That industry is now dead
1. Offshore is still alive
2. Those guys are working in places like Odessa on fracking operations now
This is a LA/TX-based website, bro. Don't try to post bullshite like O/G isn't lucrative for the entire population across all economic-educational-class cohorts.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 7:45 am to TenWheelsForJesus
quote:
We were able to outspend the soviets because of the wealth created by the middle class.
Might be the dumbest economic take since Marx, regardless of one’s position on free trade.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 8:49 am to Ten Bears
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here. looks like trump is reversing free trade. middle class jobs coming to louisiana
Posted on 3/24/25 at 9:00 am to RiverCityTider
Also, the US dollar has been deliberately devalued.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 9:07 am to BCreed1
“You mean like in the 1950s? I can give you the data on that too. we will go mid 50s.... 1955. Average family income $4,400 per year. Average cost of a 3 bedroom house $7,900, less than 2x a families income. How many foreign tools where used in 1955? How much foreign materials? Labor... LOL. Come on”
What we agree on and which is obviously true (from the data you cite, which I do not challenge) is that housing costs have outstripped the increase in average income. I am open to the notion that free trade policies put downward pressure on income, but the competition provided by free trade over the decades could not have made housing more expensive because that’s not how competition works. Other factors—population growth, average size of house going from 1500 to 2300 square feet, restrictive zoning, easier financing, and perhaps others—clearly did cause our housing stock to become more expensive.
What we agree on and which is obviously true (from the data you cite, which I do not challenge) is that housing costs have outstripped the increase in average income. I am open to the notion that free trade policies put downward pressure on income, but the competition provided by free trade over the decades could not have made housing more expensive because that’s not how competition works. Other factors—population growth, average size of house going from 1500 to 2300 square feet, restrictive zoning, easier financing, and perhaps others—clearly did cause our housing stock to become more expensive.
This post was edited on 3/24/25 at 10:04 am
Posted on 3/24/25 at 9:18 am to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
but the competition provided by free trade over the decades could not have made housing more expensive because that’s not how competition works. Other factors—population growth, average size of house going from 1500 to 2300 square feet, restrictive zoning, easier financing, and perhaps others—clearly did cause our housing stock to become more expensive.
Correct. Almost all due to the opposite of free trade (government intervention in the market).
Posted on 3/24/25 at 10:14 am to N.O. via West-Cal
30+million illegals may have something to do with housing costs.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 10:16 am to Ten Bears
quote:
We were able to outspend the soviets because of the wealth created by the middle class.
Might be the dumbest economic take since Marx, regardless of one’s position on free trade.
MAGA is just rehashed Democrat class warfare. They just stole old union slogans
Posted on 3/24/25 at 10:23 am to N.O. via West-Cal
quote:
What we agree on and which is obviously true (from the data you cite, which I do not challenge) is that housing costs have outstripped the increase in average income. I am open to the notion that free trade policies put downward pressure on income, but the competition provided by free trade over the decades could not have made housing more expensive because that’s not how competition works. Other factors—population growth, average size of house going from 1500 to 2300 square feet, restrictive zoning, easier financing, and perhaps others—clearly did cause our housing stock to become more expensive.
The biggest thing that effected housing costs was the 30 year mortgage which was authorized in the 1950s. That allowed you to buy a lot more house.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 10:25 am to RiverCityTider
When you need a straight line, take two data points.
There’s some good data and points in the piece. But it’s too simplistic. Almost like they wanted to avoid confounding factors.
There’s some good data and points in the piece. But it’s too simplistic. Almost like they wanted to avoid confounding factors.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 10:53 am to RiverCityTider
My wife and I spent a couple of weeks in Korea and Japan and then another couple of weeks in China. There were no abandoned factories.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:03 pm to BCreed1
quote:
What the frick?
You don't think that's factual? You're clueless.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:05 pm to BCreed1
quote:
The share of adults who reside in middle-class households fell from 61% in 1971 to 50% in 2021, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of government data.
Based on what? Not standard of living.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:34 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I don't know. I'm not an economist. I'm just reposting the economic scholarship of Friedman/Sowell (
so in your belief anything and everything that American consumes that can be made cheaper either by natural advantages or because another country subsidizes the industry should be imported?
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:44 pm to Midtiger farm
quote:
so in your belief anything and everything that American consumes that can be made cheaper either by natural advantages or because another country subsidizes the industry should be imported?
No. There are supply chain and national security concerns, but the problem is "national security" in this area has the same width as a term as "infrastructure" did to the DEMs in 2021.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:45 pm to TigersHuskers
quote:
Douchebags like him look down on blue collar guys
Which is amazing because he is a welfare queen.
Posted on 3/24/25 at 1:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
There are supply chain and national security concerns,
So in your opinion what industries should the US concentrate on making here?
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