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re: How do liberals want Trump to react to the lies by the MSM?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:39 pm to Salmon
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:39 pm to Salmon
Yeah you do. It’s really simple
Media reports untrue things (funny how it’s always aimed in the same direction) and so people don’t believe them
Those people then vote for Donald Trump, but if they believed what the media said about him, if the media were credible to them, they wouldn’t...if what the media has said was true (it’s not) and people believed them (they don’t) he wouldn’t be president.
As we sit here discussing trump’s reaction and not the fake news he was reacting to
You see it your way, and act accordingly.
More power to you, just don’t be confused when the media says he’s a racist, autocrat, xenophobe, danger to America...and most people vote for him anyway
Media reports untrue things (funny how it’s always aimed in the same direction) and so people don’t believe them
Those people then vote for Donald Trump, but if they believed what the media said about him, if the media were credible to them, they wouldn’t...if what the media has said was true (it’s not) and people believed them (they don’t) he wouldn’t be president.
As we sit here discussing trump’s reaction and not the fake news he was reacting to
You see it your way, and act accordingly.
More power to you, just don’t be confused when the media says he’s a racist, autocrat, xenophobe, danger to America...and most people vote for him anyway
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 1:40 pm
2
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:43 pm to DelU249
quote:
You see it your way, and act accordingly.
More power to you, just don’t be confused when the media says he’s a racist, autocrat, xenophobe, danger to America...and most people vote for him anyway
I'm not confused. You are running off on tangents that are completely different than my points, which is why I couldn't follow. I'm not confused as to why people vote for Trump
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:46 pm to DelU249
quote:So you're saying subjective statements are the biggest lies? Subjective statements cannot, by definition, be lies. That's what makes them subjective.
The biggest is subjective...then there’s also reporting opinion as fact and reporting unsubstantiated claims as fact (trump said the access Hollywood rape isn’t real)
Subjective: "Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
If the media's biggest lies are subjective, then the media has not lied at all. However, Trump calling the media liars is lying because they have not lied...per your definition.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:48 pm to Salmon
I’m on a tangent? You’re talking about “well what if Obama”
They didn’t report all of this salacious and (important part) entirely untrue shite about Obama in the press. When they mischaracterized Obama, it was on his behalf...so you’re hypothetical doesn’t make sense.
If we had decades of the antithesis, bet your arse people would be sick of it and start punching the D ticket
They didn’t report all of this salacious and (important part) entirely untrue shite about Obama in the press. When they mischaracterized Obama, it was on his behalf...so you’re hypothetical doesn’t make sense.
If we had decades of the antithesis, bet your arse people would be sick of it and start punching the D ticket
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:50 pm to DelU249
quote:The MSM has a clear bias against Trump, but what are the objective, provable lies that are being widely reported by the MSM? You are saying the media is reporting "untrue" things without qualifying what those "untrue" things are. They are reporting news and opinions that make Trump look bad for sure, but that is different from reporting "untrue" things.
Media reports untrue things (funny how it’s always aimed in the same direction) and so people don’t believe them
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 1:51 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:52 pm to DelU249
quote:
You’re talking about “well what if Obama”
No. I made a direct comparison to a similar scenario and reaction.
quote:
When they mischaracterized Obama, it was on his behalf...so you’re hypothetical doesn’t make sense.
I didn't make a hypothetical?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:53 pm to DelU249
quote:What objectively "untrue" information is being widely reported by the MSM as truth? Sure, the MSM takes every opportunity to make Trump look bad, but that doesn't mean they are reporting "untrue" things any more than Trump says "untrue" things. It's all rhetoric.
They didn’t report all of this salacious and (important part) entirely untrue shite about Obama in the press. When they mischaracterized Obama, it was on his behalf...so you’re hypothetical doesn’t make sense.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 1:54 pm to bhtigerfan
Perhaps we should all expect Trump to accept the truth as truth.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:03 pm to PointsInCase
No I’m saying “biggest” lie is subjective
An untruth is an untruth
Precisely, how do I measure one lie against another...when there are so many to choose from?
Here’s a flat out lie. “Flynn will testify candidate trump ordered him to contact Russians”
“Trump Jr Wikileaks on September 4th”
Reporting opinion as fact is unethical...so when journalists casually mention that trump is a racist or what he said is racist, or that is meant to appeal to racists...that’s a lie because they presented it as fact when it is not. This is just an obvious example, there’s no shortage.
A mischaracterization would be tweeting a photo of a half empty arena before the rally with the caption “packed to the rafters” to make people think trump himself was mischaracterizing when he said DURING his rally that it was a full house, a big crowd...or when you say he said all Mexicans are rapists. “Their racists” vs. “they’re rapists” also a flat out lie because they put the latter in print and ignore that he was talking about illegal aliens coming across the border from Mexico
A lie by omission would be, and unrelated to trump but definitely my favorite, when you cut someone off at “stop destroying our community” and call it a “call for peace” when directly after that, the person tells them to go to another neighborhood to continue destroying property...
Just this week you’ve had 3 major bombshells walked back by 4 different outlets to make it appear as if trump worked with the Russian government to win the election. Plus weigel’s photo...all of that in 7 days. I don’t have the time to give you all the shite that’s gone down since July of 2015
An untruth is an untruth
quote:
Subjective: "Based on or influenced by personal feelings, tastes, or opinions."
Precisely, how do I measure one lie against another...when there are so many to choose from?
Here’s a flat out lie. “Flynn will testify candidate trump ordered him to contact Russians”
“Trump Jr Wikileaks on September 4th”
Reporting opinion as fact is unethical...so when journalists casually mention that trump is a racist or what he said is racist, or that is meant to appeal to racists...that’s a lie because they presented it as fact when it is not. This is just an obvious example, there’s no shortage.
A mischaracterization would be tweeting a photo of a half empty arena before the rally with the caption “packed to the rafters” to make people think trump himself was mischaracterizing when he said DURING his rally that it was a full house, a big crowd...or when you say he said all Mexicans are rapists. “Their racists” vs. “they’re rapists” also a flat out lie because they put the latter in print and ignore that he was talking about illegal aliens coming across the border from Mexico
A lie by omission would be, and unrelated to trump but definitely my favorite, when you cut someone off at “stop destroying our community” and call it a “call for peace” when directly after that, the person tells them to go to another neighborhood to continue destroying property...
Just this week you’ve had 3 major bombshells walked back by 4 different outlets to make it appear as if trump worked with the Russian government to win the election. Plus weigel’s photo...all of that in 7 days. I don’t have the time to give you all the shite that’s gone down since July of 2015
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:07 pm to PointsInCase
Trump Jr received Wikileaks emails on September 4th. You may have heard about that one, it’s why we’re talking about trump’s response to false reports
Also “objectively untrue” isn’t the standard to which the media is held. They’re supposed to report only “objectively true” information.
You can spin it any which way you want, the media lies and it’s why they’re not only ineffective as opposition (and they are opposition) but they’re actually counter productive in realizing the success of their agenda.
Also “objectively untrue” isn’t the standard to which the media is held. They’re supposed to report only “objectively true” information.
You can spin it any which way you want, the media lies and it’s why they’re not only ineffective as opposition (and they are opposition) but they’re actually counter productive in realizing the success of their agenda.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:15 pm to DelU249
quote:
Precisely, how do I measure one lie against another...when there are so many to choose from? Here’s a flat out lie. “Flynn will testify candidate trump ordered him to contact Russians”
How is it a lie that President-elect Trump ordered his future national security advisor to contact Russia? That seems plausible. It doesn't imply wrongdoing unless there is additional reason to believe so. What's the lie? Where are the facts to support that this is a lie? Keep in mind Flynn has already plead guilty to lying to the FBI. I'm not saying this story is definitely NOT a lie, but you have no proof it is or any inside information to suggest otherwise.
By your definition of lying, Trump lies all the time and we have the tweets to prove it. It's a two-way street. There are websites dedicated to tweets where Trump directly contradicts himself on Twitter.
Moreover, using your definition of lying, Trump is stooping to the level of the MSM (imfotainment networks) to rile up his base of support. Again, I hold the President to a much higher standard than the MSM. But apparently you see it differently.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:17 pm to DelU249
How about his recent trip to Japan where they were feeding koi fish and they make it seem as if Trump just dumps his in, but the Japanese PM had dumped his in prior to Trump.
"Look at this poor representation of the American president!"
It is a flat out attack at all times to make him appear as everything he does is awful, which is patently false.
Or how about the one where Trump signs a kid's hat and throws it into the crowd...when he actually tossed it back to the boy.
The events where they mischaracterized his actions or words are so numerous that it would be very hard to list them all.
"Look at this poor representation of the American president!"
It is a flat out attack at all times to make him appear as everything he does is awful, which is patently false.
Or how about the one where Trump signs a kid's hat and throws it into the crowd...when he actually tossed it back to the boy.
The events where they mischaracterized his actions or words are so numerous that it would be very hard to list them all.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:19 pm to DelU249
quote:So the MSM should be held to a higher standard than the President? Your logic always crumbles because you're equating the media's responsibility with the President's responsibility.
Also “objectively untrue” isn’t the standard to which the media is held. They’re supposed to report only “objectively true” information.
The MSM is a collection of mostly private enterprises engaging in business. People can choose to listen or not to listen. The President is the leader of the free world. His decisions change the direction of the country and the world, and affect us all. He should most definitely be held to a far higher standard.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 2:20 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:21 pm to PointsInCase
quote:If the media only reported "objectively true" information, this wouldn't even be a discussion.
So the MSM should be held to a higher standard than the President?
So, yes, I hold the media to a higher standard than the president considering that they are supposed to be the arbiters of truth who call out the lies pushed by any president.
If they aren't at their core truthful, their entire purpose is negated.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:22 pm to Scruffy
quote:These are the biggest lies you can think of? A comical picture that has nothing to do with governance? Throwing a hat? I mean, really? The MSM clearly has a bias against Trump, but if these are the biggest "untrue" things...
How about his recent trip to Japan where they were feeding koi fish and they make it seem as if Trump just dumps his in, but the Japanese PM had dumped his in prior to Trump.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:27 pm to Scruffy
quote:I cannot argue with anyone who thinks this way.
So, yes, I hold the media to a higher standard than the president considering that they are supposed to be the arbiters of truth who call out the lies pushed by any president.
The MSM is mostly a collection of private enterprises. Their goal is to increase shareholder value, not run the country. Do you not like the first amendment or free markets? Do you think we should regulate the media more heavily?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:28 pm to PointsInCase
quote:they didn't say president elect trump ordered his security advisor to contact Russia
resident-elect Trump ordered his future national security advisor to contact Russia?
they said Flynn will testify2 that candidate1 trump ordered him to contact the Russians.
1. candidate trump didn't, president elect trump did. the distinction is material. candidate trump and it means, "look see he was colluding with the Russians". president elect trump and it means "look, day to day business as usual!!" a couple of things, they don't report day to day business as breaking news, yet they called what was obviously a retraction a "clarification" so they lied about their lie...go figure, but also
2. the use of the word testify is a mischaracterization, in context of a) candidate trump not president elect trump ordering Flynn and b) the entire purpose of the grand jury...it gives the appearance that Flynn's testimony before the grand jury would serve the purpose of implicating trump in a crime.
now I do get where you're really going with this...how do I know it was a lie, and not a mistake.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:36 pm to PointsInCase
quote:the standard to which the president is held is only relevant when you consider that the credibility of the media is kind of important in holding the president to a standard.
So the MSM should be held to a higher standard than the President?
regardless, voters vote, the media's job is to report facts, true things, verified to be true to those voters and whether or not the voters believe them I would say is kind of an important part of that equation.
if one believes that trump is a liar and no one cares, the part where no one cares, who bears the responsibility there? I mean he's sitting there calling them fake news, and they're complaining...then they print fake news
informing the public and serving as a propaganda outlet for one party...2 different things, and you can't do both. the media says they're doing the former which is a lie because we all know they're doing the latter.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:39 pm to PointsInCase
quote:Do I want to regulate them more heavily? No. I just don't view the lies as acceptable.
The MSM is mostly a collection of private enterprises. Their goal is to increase shareholder value, not run the country. Do you not like the first amendment or free markets? Do you think we should regulate the media more heavily?
Also, I can't argue with anyone who believes that dishonest reporting is just a part of it and is acceptable.
And as for the koi fish and hat throwing incidents, if they can't be honest about such trivial matters, why should I trust them in regards to anything else?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 2:51 pm to PointsInCase
quote:yeah, and i'm telling you why no one gives a fricking shite
By your definition of lying, Trump lies all the time
I guess my ideal is the media not tilting the scales making it necessary...that when the president lies, an honest media reports that he lies and people go "oh shite. he lied"
a politician that lies all of the time, oh my god...i'm totally shocked
trump does use exaggeration as a form of mischaracterization. he does lie "going to release tax returns" "that's not me pretending to be my publicist"
that's what you have to do to even out the scales. I'd prefer a world where trump didn't prove to me that it was so necessary to fight liars by herding them like sheep.
I don't think it's a good thing to have a free press willingly acting as propaganda outlet. I don't think it's a good thing that people don't believe the media.
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