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re: How do liberals want Trump to react to the lies by the MSM?
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:05 pm to Scruffy
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:05 pm to Scruffy
quote:The premise of this thread is whether or not Trump is justified in his response to the MSM. I have argued that he should be held to a higher standard than the MSM. I have never implied I agree with, like, or trust the MSM. I have stated the exact opposite.
Do I want to regulate them more heavily? No. I just don't view the lies as acceptable. Also, I can't argue with anyone who believes that dishonest reporting is just a part of it and is acceptable. And as for the koi fish and hat throwing incidents, if they can't be honest about such trivial matters, why should I trust them in regards to anything else?
And you have yet to prove any actual lies that are damaging to our democracy. Nitpicking small things that are not widely reported is not evidence of abundant "untruths" being reported by the MSM. It's just biased journalism, which is protected by the Constitution. This isn't China or North Korea.
News agencies can report whatever they want for the most part. If these things turn out to be untrue, lthen their credibility should suffer and viewership should go down, per free market principles. Personally, I think the media should be more regulated, but I'm guessing that is not a popular opinion on this forum.
The fact that no one here can state any completely and unequivocally false information widely reported by the MSM is evidence that the reporting is more biaed than "untrue."
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 3:07 pm
2
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:12 pm to DelU249
quote:I have no words. Wow.
yeah, and i'm telling you why no one gives a fricking shite I guess my ideal is the media not tilting the scales making it necessary...that when the president lies, an honest media reports that he lies and people go "oh shite. he lied" a politician that lies all of the time, oh my god...i'm totally shocked trump does use exaggeration as a form of mischaracterization. he does lie "going to release tax returns" "that's not me pretending to be my publicist" that's what you have to do to even out the scales. I'd prefer a world where trump didn't prove to me that it was so necessary to fight liars by herding them like sheep. I don't think it's a good thing to have a free press willingly acting as propaganda outlet. I don't think it's a good thing that people don't believe the media.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:14 pm to PointsInCase
quote:where the media doesn't lie, people believe an honest media thus holding lying politicians accountable to voters...yeah, my ideal is really fricked
at when the president lies, an honest media reports that he lies and people go "oh shite. he lied"
or that I don't care trump lies about trolling people magazine reporters 30 years ago. here's a shocker: people who liked their doctor/insurance and didn't get to keep it despite being told otherwise by the president don't give a shite if it was 1 person celebrating on a rooftop or 1 million. relative to the alternative, I don't find trump to be dishonest, but yet I would prefer a world where everyone was and those who weren't, held accountable. totally crazy, right?
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 3:18 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:17 pm to Salmon
quote:
No. The media just reflects society.
Not really
quote:Ok. What I said is still true.
Trump played it better and harder than anybody.
You know that.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:20 pm to DelU249
quote:The media's job is to hold the President accountable. The President's job is to run the country. It's the people that should hold the media accountable, not the President.
how is my ideal of an honest media forcing accountability a "wow. just wow" is that not what you want where the media doesn't lie, people believe an honest media thus holding lying politicians accountable to voters...yeah, my ideal is really fricked
All of the worst societies in history were the result of authoritarianism and communism, not democracy and free speech. It isn't the role of government to dictate what the media should or should not say about them. This is not the USSR.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:22 pm to Scruffy
to quote the great Anthony Cuomo "this is the reality of the world in which we live"
or the great Hillary Clinton "what difference does it make?"
the left better get their shite together and knock it off with the fake outrage, voter intimidation and the fake news...for their own sake.
or the great Hillary Clinton "what difference does it make?"
the left better get their shite together and knock it off with the fake outrage, voter intimidation and the fake news...for their own sake.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:26 pm to PointsInCase
quote:
He's the President. They are not. I hold the most powerful person (arguably) in the world to a different standard than an infotainment anchor or non-name celebrity.
You can't judge people by two different standards is these situations. You're basically saying that the media is allowed to try to get the guy thrown out of office by any means necessary and he's just supposed to lie down and take it because he's the president. That's total nonsense.
quote:
The only other powerful entity/country/institution outside of the media that has called out Trump without human dignity is North Korea.
And Hollywood and left wing political parties and around the globe.
quote:
Plus, it's hard to feel sorry for Trump getting blasted by the media when he has tweeted provable lies, like that he denied the offer to be Time's Person of the Year, that his inauguration crowd was as big as Obama's, or that he received more electoral votes than anyone else in history. These are provable lies.
I don't give a shite if he gets blasted for things like that. It's when he gets blasted for trivial shite, especially trivial shite that turns out to be true.
quote:
And what about him constantly bringing up Hillary when he seeks attention? She is not even in political office. She has no relevance whatsoever to his job as President. He simply mentions her name to rile up his base of support.
He typically brings her up only when she goes after him. She's been on a blame tour for a year now and she won't stop whining. I don't blame him for calling her a corrupt loser because she is one. She's still in her glass house throwing stones.
quote:
Trump is far from a victim. He is the single most powerful, or at least one of the most powerful people, in the world. If he keeps tweeting the way he does, most of the world will continue to label him an embarrassment of a President. It's all in his (tiny) hands.
No one is claiming him to be a victim. He's simply the target of an elitist and pretentious group of people who can't stand to not get their way. That's why they're going after him like they are.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:28 pm to PointsInCase
quote:it's to disseminate information that is true...one of the most important things that comes from doing so is accountability of government...so I agree, kind of.
The media's job is to hold the President accountable.
quote:
he President's job is to run the country.
agree
quote:the people are holding them accountable...they don't believe shite they say until they start demonstrating that they're reporting the truth, at the very least making a good faith effort to. how is the president holding them accountable? name one thing he's done to hold them accountable? he's simply defends himself to the people against lies by the media...the media puts out information ostensibly to hold the president accountable...and with that you have no objection
It's the people that should hold the media accountable, not the President.
(reasonably) It sounds like you're making it up as you go along. quote:when did I say otherwise? man you're a loon if you think that's what's happening. trump defends himself against false reports by the media...in no world is that objectionable.
It isn't the role of government to dictate what the media should or should not say about them.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 3:36 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:29 pm to PointsInCase
quote:
All of the worst societies in history were the result of authoritarianism and communism, not democracy and free speech. It isn't the role of government to dictate what the media should or should not say about them. This is not the USSR.
And it isn't the media's role to dictate political doctrine and drive legislation. The media in this country overtly brags about how it drives policy in DC. That's not how it's supposed to work.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:31 pm to upgrayedd
quote:which they are doing, holding only one side accountable...for shite they make up
And it isn't the media's role to dictate political doctrine and drive legislation.
but trump is holding them accountable by defending himself (can't stress that enough
) against reports by the media that are simply not true.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:34 pm to upgrayedd
they can play this spin all they want to their own detriment
the pendulum swings back and forth, but the way democrats and THEIR media are conducting themselves right now, it may not.
people are sick of the bullshite, and the more they do it, the more voters are going to tell them where to shove it.
the pendulum swings back and forth, but the way democrats and THEIR media are conducting themselves right now, it may not.
people are sick of the bullshite, and the more they do it, the more voters are going to tell them where to shove it.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:37 pm to DelU249
quote:
which they are doing, holding only one side accountable...for shite they make up
but trump is holding them accountable by defending himself (can't stress that enough ) against reports by the media that are simply not true.
Time and time again, they create their own anti-Trump narrative, the begrudge the fact that they get pushback. It's the most arrogant thing I've ever seen.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:39 pm to DelU249
quote:
they can play this spin all they want to their own detriment
the pendulum swings back and forth, but the way democrats and THEIR media are conducting themselves right now, it may not.
people are sick of the bullshite, and the more they do it, the more voters are going to tell them where to shove it.
They start shite to make Trump look like a fool, he turns it around on them to show their true intentions, then they say it's his fault for forcing them to needlessly start shite. They're elitists who take zero responsibility for their overzealous mistakes.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:53 pm to upgrayedd
quote:What he's doing is hurting, not helping, in regard to getting thrown out of office. He constantly contradicts himself, and it's provable. His own attorneys want him to stop. His tweets have already been used against him in court.
You can't judge people by two different standards is these situations. You're basically saying that the media is allowed to try to get the guy thrown out of office by any means necessary and he's just supposed to lie down and take it because he's the president.
quote:Hollywood goes after the status quo for everything. They have been extremely liberal for quite some time. They have been against every war and every conservative for a while now. What makes Trump different is that he attacks back, causing more trouble for him.
And Hollywood and left wing political parties and around the globe.
quote:Trump brings up Hillary and Obama every chance he gets. He knows they are hated by his base. It's not the other way around. Obama and Hillary aren't even in office.
He typically only brings her up when she goes after him
quote:Trump is the definition of elite. Billionaire, Manhattanite, Democrat (until recent years), loves expensive/ostentatious things, divorced multiple times, attended elite schools, etc.
He's simply the target of an elitist and pretentious group of people
Don't believe the rhetoric. He has rebelled against other elites partly because they aren't as shallow as him and haven't made all of their wealth by strong arming real estate deals domestically, filing for bankruptcy, then strong arming real estate deals abroad...
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 3:55 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 3:58 pm to upgrayedd
quote:Trump is more wealthy and "elite" than most of the people that constantly criticize him. He is a Billionaire. He lived in Manhattan. He owns private jets. He went to elite schools. He has lots of rich friends. He's just unlikeable and shallow. That's his problem. Or maybe he has a personality disorder?
They start shite to make Trump look like a fool, he turns it around on them to show their true intentions, then they say it's his fault for forcing them to needlessly start shite. They're elitists who take zero responsibility for their overzealous mistakes.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 4:03 pm to PointsInCase
your last 2 posts make it perfectly clear. you don't like trump. just say that next time and spare us the bad faith discussion.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 4:04 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 4:07 pm to PointsInCase
quote:We'll see
What he's doing is hurting, not helping, in regard to getting thrown out of office. He constantly contradicts himself, and it's provable. His own attorneys want him to stop. His tweets have already been used against him in court.
quote:
Hollywood goes after the status quo for everything. They have been extremely liberal for quite some time. They have been against every war and every conservative for a while now. What makes Trump different is that he attacks back, causing more trouble for him.
So he should just let them destroy him with baseless nonsense so he doesn't cause trouble. Gotcha.
quote:
Trump brings up Hillary and Obama every chance he gets. He knows they are hated by his base. It's not the other way around. Obama and Hillary aren't even in office.
Obama brought up Bush for 8 years and no one on the left batted an eye.
quote:
Trump is the definition of elite. Billionaire, Manhattanite, Democrat (until recent years), loves expensive/ostentatious things, divorced multiple times, attended elite schools, etc.
So? The media is still full of pretentious elitists that holds non coastal Americans in contempt.
quote:
Don't believe the rhetoric. He has rebelled against other elites partly because they aren't as shallow as him and haven't made all of their wealth by strong arming real estate deals domestically, filing for bankruptcy, then strong arming real estate deals abroad...
Posted on 12/11/17 at 4:08 pm to PointsInCase
quote:
Trump is more wealthy and "elite" than most of the people that constantly criticize him. He is a Billionaire. He lived in Manhattan. He owns private jets. He went to elite schools. He has lots of rich friends. He's just unlikeable and shallow. That's his problem. Or maybe he has a personality disorder?
If you would like to refute my point, then go ahead. What you just wrote is irrelevant to the point.
Posted on 12/11/17 at 4:17 pm to PointsInCase
quote:
The fact that no one here can state any completely and unequivocally false information widely reported by the MSM
Russians hacked a state power grid.
Mueller subpoenaed Trump's Deutsche bank records
Trump Jr. Received wikileaks data before its general release.
“Russians attempted to hack elections systems in 21 states in the run-up to last year’s presidential election, officials said Friday,” began the USA Today story,
Trump establishes secret server with Russian Bank
I don't disagree with anything you've said about Trump. But calling the MSM's stories unbiased instead of untrue seems a bit naive, IMO.
This post was edited on 12/11/17 at 4:18 pm
Posted on 12/11/17 at 4:54 pm to DelU249
quote:I don't like Trump and I don't like the MSM. Trump is a garbage President (so far, that may change) and the MSM (CNN, MSNBC, Fox, etc.) reports mostly garbage.
your last 2 posts make it perfectly clear. you don't like trump. just say that next time and spare us the bad faith discussion.
But Trump has a chance of being an effective leader if he heeds the warning of his own advisors and stops trying to berate the MSM and other institutions that have treated him unjustly in his mind. His attacks put him on the same level as those he criticizes, make him appear weak, and lead to more biased reporting and pissed off people. I am not a Democrat nor am I a Republican. I call it as I see it.
In a lot of ways, Trump reaps what he sows. I think it's hard to insist otherwise.
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