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Started By
Message
re: Gun Control Discussion
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:41 pm to upgrayedd
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:41 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
Because these people don't want to live
90% of those who fail a suicide attempt will not successfully complete the act at a later date At that moment, yes, but many get help and find the will to live later on.
2
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:41 pm to ctiger69
600+ shooting deaths in Chicago this year. 99% Democrats
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:41 pm to BamaAtl
quote:It is my position that it will not reduce "a noticeable portion of them" as you stated.
Just for the record, it's your position that waiting periods do not prevent gun deaths?
Just for the record, I'm not speaking to suicides. Those are not part of the real gun debate.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:43 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i posted an article saying they weren't effective
Weren't effective in the absence of other measures. They're effective in conjunction with other broad changes to gun laws.
quote:
to go back to my original response, assuming no gun ban, people will just buy them for more than the government will
Have any data on that, or is it just another Randian fever dream?
quote:
approximately 300M are legally owned. do you want the feds to buy back 100M guns? 200M?
We've been over this. I don't think the 150M owned by the fetishists are touchable, and there's a healthy portion of the remaining half that likely wouldn't be considered as possible returns. But we've never tried it on a large scale, so we don't know what the uptake would be.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:43 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
The 2nd Amendment isn't a suicide pact. Hell, until Heller there was no explicit right to individual ownership. That's barely precedent.
i mean i wouldn't cite Heller in defense of the power of the feds to ban guns similar to the UK or AUS, given the facts at play and the final ruling
the Supreme Court ruled the DC laws, which were much less stringent than banning, violated the 2A. clearly a ban would violate the 2A
quote:
Because of their success.
their success using behaviors that would be illegal in the US
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:43 pm to HailHailtoMichigan!
quote:
HailHailtoMichigan!
It's November - shouldn't you be re-reading Atlas Shrugged in time for Thanksgiving?
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:44 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
90% of those who fail a suicide attempt will not successfully complete the act at a later date At that moment, yes, but many get help and find the will to live later on.
That's completely irrelevant. I stand by my statement that my right to own a firearm should not be predicated on the fact that some people want to die by their own hand.
A friend of mine killed himself on purpose by wrapping his car around a tree at 110 mph. By your logic, preventing the public's access to cars is a logical next step.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:44 pm to beerJeep
quote:
Why don't you want to talk about the suicide rates in japan/south korea/france and in nordic countries?
Those are distinct countries with their own unique cultures and issues and histories.
If you'd like to learn about access to guns and suicides in the US, here is a good resource for you to begin your education.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:45 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
or is it just another Randian fever dream
uh, not a Randroid. no clue why you assumed as much
quote:
Weren't effective in the absence of other measures
seems like "other measures" are the key, then
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:45 pm to BamaAtl
Why aren't you calling for common sense alcohol control? Why do you feel that it's okay to sell domestic abusers alcohol to fuel their next domestic assault?
Why do you think it's okay to sell someone alcohol knowing they are exponentially more likely to commit suicide than had you not sold them alcohol?
Why do you think it's okay to sell habitual offenders alcohol when alcohol is a root cause of their criminal activity?
Why you you want to keep minorities down and in an ever revolving door of crime and incarceration due to alcohol addiction?
A simple mental health and background check could conpletely change these people's lives.
You're a cruel and shitty person for enabling such horrible and vindictive practices.
You'd think as a champion of minorities you would be on board with a plan that will overwhelmingly bring happiness and healthiness to minority communities by halting alcohol sales to at risk citizens.
Why do you think it's okay to sell someone alcohol knowing they are exponentially more likely to commit suicide than had you not sold them alcohol?
Why do you think it's okay to sell habitual offenders alcohol when alcohol is a root cause of their criminal activity?
Why you you want to keep minorities down and in an ever revolving door of crime and incarceration due to alcohol addiction?
A simple mental health and background check could conpletely change these people's lives.
You're a cruel and shitty person for enabling such horrible and vindictive practices.
You'd think as a champion of minorities you would be on board with a plan that will overwhelmingly bring happiness and healthiness to minority communities by halting alcohol sales to at risk citizens.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:45 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Those are distinct countries with their own unique cultures and issues and histories.
but America is not?
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:47 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
what about per capita?
does Wyoming have a larger rate of gun murder than NJ? Mass?
quote:
does Wyoming have a larger rate of gun murder than ... Mass?
They're right next to each other in gun murders per 100,000 in 2011 data.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:47 pm to BBONDS25
quote:
Your incessant beating if the more guns equals more gun deaths is irrelevant and disingenuous.
And yet, soon your buddy Clames will be along to scream that more guns = fewer gun deaths.
Because he's a fricking moron.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:48 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
They're right next to each other in gun murders per 100,000 in 2011 data.
can you post that data? all data i seem to find looking for "gun violence" include suicides
and that shows that the over-representation of guns in Wyoming isn't exactly driving gun violence (again, violent crimes not suicides)
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:49 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
do we have any data about those legal gun owners who own a disproportionate amount of guns and violence they commit upon others?
One of them just committed the largest mass shooting on American soil. 58 dead, 500+ wounded. It wasn't even 2 months ago, surely you've heard about it...
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:50 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
One of them just committed the largest mass shooting on American soil. 58 dead, 500+ wounded. It wasn't even 2 months ago, surely you've heard about it...
yeah that was terrible but mass killings are a VERY small portion of total gun violence in the US
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:50 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
more guns = fewer suicides
Fify.
Where did I get my information? Oh well. The world health organization.
Exibit a) US suicide rate 10/100k
Exibit b) France suicide rate 16/100k
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 2:51 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:51 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
It is my position that it will not reduce "a noticeable portion of them"
I disagree
quote:
Waiting period laws that delay the purchase of firearms by a few days reduce gun homicides by roughly 17%. Our results imply that the 17 states (including the District of Columbia) with waiting periods avoid roughly 750 gun homicides per year as a result of this policy. Expanding the waiting period policy to all other US states would prevent an additional 910 gun homicides per year without imposing any restrictions on who can own a gun.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:53 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i agree. access to guns doesn't explain the difference in violent crimes via gun between the 2 cities
Those 2 cities. Though I would be curious to know what % of the population of each city owns a gun - I'd put money that Houston has more. Not sure anyone has city-level data on ownership.
Because it's a dual equation of both access AND prevalence.
quote:
so do you agree now that this isn't an issue of gun ownership and it's an issue related to demographics?
I agree that we have insufficient data in the case of Houston and Austin alone to say more than demographics play a role. I disagree that we lack sufficient data to say that more than demographics - namely differences in gun laws - plays a role when comparing other locales.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:54 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
purchase of firearms by a few days reduce gun homicides by roughly 17%
So 17% of gun homicides are commited by a guy who bought his new gun within the last few days?
Really?
Really?
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