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re: Gun Control Discussion
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:57 pm to BamaAtl
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:57 pm to BamaAtl
Care to explain Japan's suicide rate yet? Frances? Any of the nordic countries? How about South Korea?
Come on. You states that ease of access to firearms is the main cause for a high suicide rate.
EXPLAIN FRANCE. JAPAN. NORDIC COUNTRIES. SOUTH KOREA.
Come on. You states that ease of access to firearms is the main cause for a high suicide rate.
EXPLAIN FRANCE. JAPAN. NORDIC COUNTRIES. SOUTH KOREA.
0
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:57 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
seems like TX would be better off ignoring gun factors and focusing on "Austin" factors to improve the violence in Houston
Give everyone in the poorest cities a universal basic income? Sure, that might work to reduce crime. Pretty bold policy idea from a 'libertarian,' though...
Beautiful just fricking beautiful.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:59 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Give everyone in the poorest cities a universal basic income?
Austin has a UBI? link?
quote:
And yet that's really the only comparable thing about them.
and your primary point in this thread
Texas is just one state. i can pretty much do this for every state in the US.
are you saying the differences in the areas create the differences in gun violence?
do these differences overlap in terms of type/nature?
wouldn't it be amazing that while states may have vastly different laws on guns, these differences in locations are more determinative of predicting gun violence?
quote:
Yes, but I don't mean demographics like you mean demographics.
are you doing that liberal mind reading thing?
you're talking about culture and SES, right? so am i
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:59 pm to BamaAtl
quote:No it is not.
Sure it does, when they're comparable.
There is not now nor has there ever been a country as ours exists today.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 1:59 pm to beerJeep
quote:
DUI laws don't stop people from drinking
They stop them from, or at least limit some segment of the population from participating in, harmful acts related to drinking.
quote:
And manufacturer safety requirements don't save lives
You may want to check highway fatality rates per vehicle mile over the last few decades to realize just how wrong you are here.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:00 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
As has mine, which is why it's instructive to point out to you that rural gun violence is also a problem.
see now you're trying to shift the discussion again
gun violence is intentional violence committed by one person against another using a gun
suicide is not "gun violence". it can account for a "gun death" for sure, but it's not what anyone in this thread is discussing
and all teh policies you discuss that relate to gun violence do nothing for suicides, so even you implicitly agree
you just can't be honest
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:01 pm to BamaAtl
quote:I'm sure but you fail to take ALL the facts into consideration.
Facts are all I care about.
Again, fault tree analysis.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:01 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Facts are all I care about.
fact: Austin has a universal basic income
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:02 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
i asked for an example of a buyback without a ban
Seattle, LA, and other cities in the US have had that sort of a buyback.
But no one intervention is really successful on its own - we know that it's a combination of stricter laws from a variety of angles that work to reduce gun crime. So I wouldn't expect anything to focus on just one aspect of it.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:03 pm to BamaAtl
quote:Nope.
But no one intervention is really successful on its own - we know that it's a combination of stricter laws from a variety of angles that work to reduce gun crime. So I wouldn't expect anything to focus on just one aspect of it.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:03 pm to beerJeep
quote:
What's the suicide rate of Japan? Nordic countries?
With firearms? Low as hell.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:04 pm to Jbird
quote:
Nope.
Yep.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:05 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
Seattle, LA, and other cities in the US have had that sort of a buyback.
LINK
quote:
Spread across tables or piled high into overflowing stacks, all those weapons reinforce the notion that trading cash for guns works. It gets guns off the street, organizers say, and makes the city safer.
The problem, according to years of research, is that it does neither.
quote:
Researchers who have evaluated gun control strategies say buybacks – despite their popularity – are among the least effective ways to reduce gun violence. They say targeted police patrols, intervention efforts with known criminals and, to a lesser extent, tougher gun laws all work better than buybacks.
let's just end any discussion of a "buyback"
quote:
we know that it's a combination of stricter laws from a variety of angles that work to reduce gun crime.
aka, effectively banning them
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:05 pm to BamaAtl
How would it impact a criminal intent on using a weapon?
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:05 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
With firearms? Low as hell.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:06 pm to BamaAtl
quote:
They stop them from, or at least limit some segment of the population from participating in, harmful acts related to drinking.
No it doesn't. And DUI has nothing to do with liver failure. Drinking in and of itself is harmful. You're damaging your body each sip you take. So why do you think it's okay for a mentally ill person to be sold alcohol? You do know that alcohol exponentially increases the chance someone with suicidal thoughts to actually try to kill themselves.
Why don't you think that we should have mental health and background checks on all alcohol sales?
You think it's okay to sell a domestic abuser a handle if whiskey so he can go home and beat his wife?
You think it's okay to sell a depressed kid a fifth of whiskey and him go commit suicide?
quote:
You may want to check highway fatality rates per vehicle mile over the last few decades to realize just how wrong you are here.
Still have 3x as many fatalities in automobile accidents than in gun crime(or 1.5x if you want to include suicides)
Know what will knock out 99% of vehicular deaths? Ban engines that exceed 25mph.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:07 pm to BamaAtl
quote:all of them have higher suicide rates than America which is filled with guns....
With firearms? Low as hell.
Edit- Japan has 5 more suicides per 100k (50% increase)
South Korea has 20 more. (250% increase)
Soooo...
What?
This post was edited on 11/14/17 at 2:10 pm
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:07 pm to upgrayedd
quote:
What would you add that would make them "stricter"?
Better funding, more sources for data, additional parameters like mental health status and domestic violence issues, mandatory on all purchases (even private seller), going into a database that could be used to red-flag suspicious volumes of purchases, etc.
quote:
What will a waiting period prevent?
Gun deaths. Not all, obviously, but a noticeable portion of them.
quote:
So what type of training would you want these people to have and how would that prevent mass shootings?
Something akin to Japan's firearm training would be nice, but who says I only want to prevent mass shootings? Let's prevent all (or as many as possible) of the excess gun deaths in our country.
quote:
Also, if someone with a clean record plans to die in the process of committing mass murder with a gun, how would any of the above prevent that?
Some percentage of people willing to commit a heinous act are deterred by obstacles placed in their way.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:08 pm to BamaAtl
quote:No, it's been done by lefties and only to the point that they get the answer they started out looking for.
This has been done, again and again. Again and again, it's lax gun laws that are the guilty party.
So far you have left out many pertinent factors.
Example: #1. Lets consider how many of those crimes were committed by people already breaking existing laws.
#2. Lets talk about the revolving door at jails where known offenders are turned loose only to break more existing laws.
#3. Lets consider the break down in the system that would identify the mentally disturbed during background checks.
etc.
Posted on 11/14/17 at 2:08 pm to SlowFlowPro
quote:
except when you use straw man fallacies to explain my position
Yeah, I don't do that.
More guns = more gun deaths. More guns = more gun murders. More guns = more gun suicides.
Period. We know this. We also know that things like stricter background checks, mandatory licensing/registration, training, and waiting periods reduce the number of guns in a population, and in turn reduce gun deaths.
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