- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: Goodbye Net Neutrality; Hello Competition
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:13 pm to bmy
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:13 pm to bmy
quote:
You talk about liberty.. where is the liberty in the Verizon argument claiming that there customers do not have 1st amendment rights when accessing content through Verizon services?
I didn't know Verizon has the ability to fine or jail you for not using their service.
I'm not a Verizon customer. Should I be worried about a late night raid?
quote:
You expect me to believe Soros is a proponent of free-speech now?
His group started the NN push, and it has never been about neutrality. Don't be naive.
1
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:17 pm to Volvagia
quote:
Read: the government didn’t declare teleco’s as a utility. The big Teleco’s did in a court of law.
Like the government arguing "it's not a tax" then "it's a tax" then "it's not a tax" during the same court case, then the court ruling "it's a tax?"
All the more reason to put it in the hands of the feds.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:17 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Ah, there is the wonderful P word because consumers can't think for themselves.
What?
It’s not about protecting poor consumers because they can’t think for themselves.
It’s about most houses having only one source of uncapped, stable, broadband internet. Some places are lucky to have 2. With only a handful of outliers with 3.
That’s it. If those two companies act in a way to screw their customers, then you are fricked. You will have to sacrifice your level of service in order to get out of their thumb.
And despite the thread title, NN does nothing to change competition for this. NOTHING.
If the technology is there to allow a valid alternative via wireless, net neutrality would NOT stop or slow it.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:20 pm to Volvagia
quote:
It’s not about protecting poor consumers because they can’t think for themselves.
It’s about most houses having only one source of uncapped, stable, broadband internet. Some places are lucky to have 2. With only a handful of outliers with 3.
Address the issue of why that is, and in every other industry that is a trade issue.
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:26 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Like the government arguing "it's not a tax" then "it's a tax" then "it's not a tax" during the same court case, then the court ruling "it's a tax?"
Literally nothing like that, but good try to obsure the issue.
For one, no one would have shed tears for the poor poor FedGov if arguing that would have resulted in them getting a result they didn’t like in the long run.
But that’s what’s essentially happening here.
This post was edited on 1/7/18 at 11:27 pm
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:30 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
Address the issue of why that is, and in every other industry that is a trade issue.
Agreed.
But stripping monolopy protections while doing NOTHING to change the situation that was generated by non-market forces is not the way either.
And as far as I’m concerned, the hundreds of millions given to these companies by the federal government for (mostly) unfulfilled promises is reason enough for regulatory openings.
You can’t cry a love and beliefs about free markets when nothing about your ascent involved it.
This post was edited on 1/7/18 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 1/7/18 at 11:30 pm to SoulGlo
quote:
I didn't know Verizon has the ability to fine or jail you for not using their service.
His group started the NN push, and it has never been about neutrality. Don't be naive.
Just to be clear:
You support the idea that an ISP you purchase access to the internet from can infringe upon your right to free speech? It's not hard to imagine a world where Walmart comes in and wipes out the small grocery stores in an area and in order to purchase groceries at Walmart you must forfeit your 2nd amendment right
Exactly how does a law requiring all internet traffic to be treated equally benefit the globalist agenda? That's all the pro-NN crowd wants.
This post was edited on 1/7/18 at 11:37 pm
Posted on 1/8/18 at 1:15 am to bmy
quote:You lack skills of logic.
Exactly how does a law requiring all internet traffic to be treated equally benefit the globalist agenda? That's all the pro-NN crowd wants.
Net neutrality was the camel's nose under the tent for federal government control of the internet.
Obama could not get congress to pass an updated law giving regulatory authority over the internet to the FCC.
So, the FCC voted itself to have those powers by passing a harmless sounding (and maybe even a useful) regulation by the sweet-sounding name of "Net Neutrality."
It was an end run around congress' authority. Obama was good at that.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 5:41 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
I can download at 35mbs on a 4G hotspot from an Iphone, seems pretty good. When 5G is widely available with 1gbs it will be plenty fast for consumer applications. I don't see T/VZ investing too much in in wired internet services once 5G is rolled out, the field costs to deploy and maintain wireless service is peanuts compared to copper and fiber.
You still have to get fiber to the tower and then there is the fact that when more consumers get on it there is a huge bottleneck in performance. Streaming services becoming more popular is continually crippling performance on equipment for even the most state of the art ISP's. Netflix's smart signal for example will eat up all available bandwidth if available to not have to deal with compression which doesn't seem like a big deal when the bandwidth is available at non peak times, but when entering into peak usage times and the signals aren't adjusting creates issues. Also it creates issues on ISP's that are upgrading equipment to help remove bottlenecks to turn the new hardware on to find that Netflix is eating up the new bandwidth they thought they would have as well.
Wireless isn't going to be some saving grace and every consumer on 5g will magically get 1gps down. It's going to fluctuate, then there is the constant battle as the seasons change of maintaining coverage without interference and whatnot. Many pains and logistics hurdles to the wireless market outside of leasing field spaces on towers and putting antennas up especially in rural areas.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:03 am to SoulGlo
quote:
Address the issue of why that is, and in every other industry that is a trade issue.
I would agree to ban NN to the annals of history in exchange for "open pipe", there is less than zero chance the ISP's would go for that though, gotta protect the monopolies.
The absolute last thing the ISP's want is to allow competition.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:10 am to LSURussian
quote:
You lack skills of logic.
Net neutrality was the camel's nose under the tent for federal government control of the internet.
Obama could not get congress to pass an updated law giving regulatory authority over the internet to the FCC.
So, the FCC voted itself to have those powers by passing a harmless sounding (and maybe even a useful) regulation by the sweet-sounding name of "Net Neutrality."
It was an end run around congress' authority. Obama was good at that.
Amazing how many otherwise steadfast liberty defenders still don't get this.
Lib/progs I totally understand.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:17 am to Volvagia
quote:
It’s about most houses having only one source of uncapped, stable, broadband internet.
I see we have another guy who doesn't understand what the word competition means.
I mean. All houses also typically have one source for Ferraris, Teslas, price collusion for iPhones, iPads, etc etc.
Hell. Most have only one nearby source for BMWs, Jaguars, etc etc. And, got help you if you live in the sticks and need one of those worked on!.
quote:
That’s it. If those two companies act in a way to screw their customers, then you are fricked. You will have to sacrifice your level of service in order to get out of their thumb.
I'm so saddened by how ignorant Americans are when it comes to this subject. I mean, you guys are beyond teaching. And, even when history ends up showing your hysterics are just that, you STILL won't learn.
I can guarantee you that 100% of the people who demanded govt action regarding Blockbuster Video in 2005......yes, 2005!!......are NN knob slobberers now.
The same people who in the late 90s felt Sears was too powerful and demanded govt protection.........yep.......they're gonna be NN slobberers too.
None of you EVER fricking learn!
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:48 am to ShortyRob
quote:
I can guarantee you that 100% of the people who demanded govt action regarding Blockbuster Video in 2005......yes, 2005!!......are NN knob slobberers now.
The same people who in the late 90s felt Sears was too powerful and demanded govt protection.........yep.......they're gonna be NN slobberers too.
Don't forget the telecom industry. EXACTLY the same argument and EXACTLY the same solution. Fedgov regulation to "protect consumers."
We see how well that worked.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:48 am to ShortyRob
quote:
ShortyRob
You have to be the worst analogy maker ever born, seriously Sears in the 90's WTF they were leaking like a sieve.
Single purchase items like cars compared to internet service?
Are you trolling or high?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:50 am to cave canem
quote:Dude. That's the point.
You have to be the worst analogy maker ever born, seriously Sears in the 90's WTF they were leaking like a sieve.
The fricking left was fighting to get the govt to protect us from Sears...........in the 90s!!
quote:You don't understand competition either. I'm not her to bring people up from 3rd grade understanding of economics. Sorry.
Single purchase items like cars compared to internet service?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 8:58 am to ShortyRob
quote:
You don't understand competition either. I'm not her to bring people up from 3rd grade understanding of economics. Sorry.
Oh I understand competition perfectly well, whatever bullshite you are blabbering about is a differnt animal all together.
How do you think repealing NN has any effect on competition?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 9:06 am to cave canem
quote:No you don't.
Oh I understand competition perfectly well,
All of you morons think that for something to be "competition" it has to be an equal product.
quote:I never actually brought this up. Just sayin.
How do you think repealing NN has any effect on competition?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 9:18 am to Bass Tiger
quote:
I can download at 35mbs on a 4G hotspot from an Iphone, seems pretty good. When 5G is widely available with 1gbs it will be plenty fast for consumer applications. I don't see T/VZ investing too much in in wired internet services once 5G is rolled out, the field costs to deploy and maintain wireless service is peanuts compared to copper and fiber.
First off, if the costs to deploy and maintain wireless were truly "peanuts" compared to copper and fiber, then our wireless service would already be cheaper than hard line internet to the home. It's not. In fact, it's an order of magnitude more expensive per byte delivered.
Second, if you think wireless is the solution to the root problem of lack of competition, I believe you are mistaken. Radio spectrum is a limited resource. We cannot create more. All we can do is divvy it up fairly, and that means via auction in a free market. The wireless market has a much smaller chance of being highly competitive than the wired market does. At least with fiber/wires, the only barriers to entry are costs and possibly local government. With wireless, there is the insurmountable barrier which is the laws of physics. Sure, tech has and will continue to find new ways to squeeze more bits into ever smaller bands of spectrum, but there is still a hard limit on what can be done. With physical cable, you can always lay more cable without worry of interference.
Posted on 1/8/18 at 9:33 am to Korkstand
quote:
It's not. In fact, it's an order of magnitude more expensive per byte delivered.
How long do you think that will remain the case?
We used to walk around with cell phones in a suitcase and paid by the minute. Even more for "roaming."
quote:
with fiber/wires, the only barriers to entry are costs and possibly local government
Bark up that tree.
Don't give the federal government the power to become the same fricked up system.
Are most of you just too entrenched in what was sold to you as a "protection" to look at the old telecom regulations, or are you just too young to remember that clusterfrick?
Posted on 1/8/18 at 9:57 am to ShortyRob
quote:Internet service is not a product that differentiates on features. It is a commodity in the sense that "internet access" means the same thing no matter who provides it. The only differentiators are speed, reliability, customer service, and price.
All of you morons think that for something to be "competition" it has to be an equal product.
Now, what YOU morons don't understand is that the ISP<->customer market is not the crux of the NN issue. The real problem is that ISPs will be free to decide the direction of ALL the markets that the internet provides access to. The common example is ISPs taxing Netflix arbitrarily, which is clearly anti-competitive but seemingly an A-OK strategy in the minds of "free market" purists.
But that is just the tip of the iceberg if this practice is deemed legal and acceptable. ISPs may have "preferred" sites/services in many markets. Do you like online banking? Your ISP will decide which banks are "preferable" to you, not by charging you a fee to use a particular bank, but by charging YOUR BANK a fee for access to you as an online customer. A tax expense pulled from thin air (like taxes are) that raises the cost of doing business for your bank. The same goes for every single thing you do online. Shopping? Private taxation. Everything, private taxation.
Page 5 of 6
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News