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re: Goldman Responds To Court Block Of Trump Tariffs: Nothingburger, White House Can Sidestep

Posted on 5/29/25 at 8:54 am to
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57332 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 8:54 am to
quote:

Yes, I did.


Who did you study procedure under? You are aware of the procedure if there is in fact a typo, right? The order states what it states. Everything else in your post is irrelevant.
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135804 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 8:55 am to
quote:

Many economics experts don't see it as a threat at all.
Many "economics experts" cite Smoot-Hawley as comparable to the present situation. It is a position soaked and lathered in stupidity. Referral to such doughheads as "experts" is audacious. Yet here we are.

Many "economics experts" also ignorantly claim the present tariffs are inflationary, apparently forgetting the premise that "inflation is always and everywhere a monetary phenomenon." In fact, it seems many "economics experts" are so eaten up with TDS that they've lost their ability to function intellectually at all.

Regarding your "trade deficit alone" premise, tariffs generate revenue. Revenue lowers the deficit. Insofar as tariffs reshore jobs, the result is increased corporate tax and individual income tax. Corporate taxes and individual income taxes generate revenue. Again, revenue lowers the deficit.

Likewise, our ability to produce goods rather than dependently consume them is an issue involving national security. That is a second argument here.
Posted by Jjdoc
Cali
Member since Mar 2016
55427 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 8:58 am to
The judiciary is 100% comprised with activist judges.
Posted by LawTalkingGuy
Member since Mar 2025
117 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:01 am to
quote:

NC_Tigah


I don't disagree with anything you wrote in that last post. I just dont see how any of it is relevant to the current topic.
Posted by I20goon
about 7mi down a dirt road
Member since Aug 2013
19508 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:01 am to
quote:

One thing that bothers me about Congress' delegation of authority is it's inability to take back its constitutional powers. If Congress decides it no longer wants POTUS to have tariff authority, it would need to pass a law withdrawing it's authority, and POTUS could veto it. If Congress just wanted to pass a resolution stating it disapproved of the Liberstion Day tariffs, POTUS could just veto that.
yes, I've always thought that was crazy... from the point of view of Congress. It's well known by Congress, but they don't seem to mind that they will struggle to clawback that authority.

We've seen the net effects since LBJ in my opinion.

This case is a good example. So IEEPA lays out that the President's authority exists if there are "any unusual and extraordinary threat" (not emergency, not war- just unusual and extraordinary) to "the national security, foreign policy, or economy of the United States" ('or' is key).

So those powers are:
In general
(1) At the times and to the extent specified in section 1701 of this title, the President may, under such regulations as he may prescribe, by means of instructions, licenses, or otherwise-

(A) investigate, regulate, or prohibit-

(i) any transactions in foreign exchange,

(ii) transfers of credit or payments between, by, through, or to any banking institution, to the extent that such transfers or payments involve any interest of any foreign country or a national thereof,

(iii) the importing or exporting of currency or securities,

That's pretty damn broad and Congress granted it (except to our current judiciary who said "tariffs aren't included").

But, to your point there is a mechanism for that clawback if Congress wanted to do it. And there is an argument that instead of these injunctions what the judicial branch should be instructing - Congress can overturn that veto and take the power back. That's also in the constitution; maybe these judges should be citing that.
Posted by GetCocky11
Calgary, AB
Member since Oct 2012
53509 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:04 am to
quote:

yes, I've always thought that was crazy... from the point of view of Congress. It's well known by Congress


This board should be scared to death to have one branch of government violate the separation of powers by giving up part of its constitutionally mandated authority to another branch of government.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
9213 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:05 am to
quote:

The order states what it states.


Exactly! The ORDER (section II) granted the relief that was requested: withholding of removal to El Salvador. The typos in the opinion were irrelevant. Here's the ORDER. What else you got?

Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135804 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:05 am to
quote:

Others in the thread pointed out that there was a likely typo in the opinion, because Abrego Garcia and his family had never even lived in Guatemala. Also, if the Guatemala argument had been persuasive, the DOJ would have asserted it. They never did.
It says what it says. PERIOD!

THERE WAS NO WITHHOLDING ORDER TO EL SALVADOR!

It's not a typo. The basis was discussed extensively in the record.

The DOJ Attorney who allowed the El Salvador claim w/o challenge in court was either incompetent or deliberately undercut the case. It's why that attorney was dismissed by the US AG.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
9213 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:16 am to
quote:

It says what it says. PERIOD!

THERE WAS NO WITHHOLDING ORDER TO EL SALVADOR!

It's not a typo. The basis was discussed extensively in the record.

The DOJ Attorney who allowed the El Salvador claim w/o challenge in court was either incompetent or deliberately undercut the case. It's why that attorney was dismissed by the US AG.


I'm sorry. This is just stupid analysis. The only thing you got correct is that the ORDER said what it said, which was that it GRANTED the withholding that was requested. That request was for withholding from removal to El Salvador.

As for the "initial mistake by the DOJ," why did DOJ NEVER amend their pleadings? If the order applied to GUATEMALA, why didn't DOJ amend their pleadings or even argue that the order applied only to Guatemala.

Seriously, please answer that question. The case is still pending. Why hasn't DOJ adopted the Guatemala argument?


Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57332 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:20 am to
quote:

As for the "initial mistake by the DOJ," why did DOJ NEVER amend their pleadings? If the order applied to GUATEMALA, why didn't DOJ amend their pleadings or even argue that the order applied only to Guatemala. Seriously, please answer that question.


Why was the very simple procedural process followed if the order had a “typo?” Seriously, please answer that question.
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57332 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:21 am to
quote:

Exactly! The ORDER (section II) granted the relief that was requested: withholding of removal to El Salvador. The typos in the opinion were irrelevant. Here's the ORDER. What else you got?

Procedure.
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
9213 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:25 am to
quote:

Why was the very simple procedural process followed if the order had a “typo?” Seriously, please answer that question.


The ORDER did not contain a typo. It was very clear. The withholding relief requested by Abrego Garcia was GRANTED. See the part where it says ORDER???

Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57332 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:27 am to
quote:

The ORDER did not contain a typo. It was very clear. The withholding relief requested by Abrego Garcia was GRANTED. See the part where it says ORDER???


So you’re saying that that portion of the order was not referring to Guatemala, either by mistake or not?
Posted by wdhalgren
Member since May 2013
4643 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:28 am to
Excellent posts in this thread. The use of "experts" to argue that we aren't in an economic emergency is laughable. The politicization of economics has become so extreme that we have debates over whether inflation actually is a monetary phenomenon. The "experts" do things like (misleadingly/incompletely) cite Friedman on trade deficits, but reject his thoughts on inflation. To the extent that we do get higher prices from trade tariffs, it will be caused by our own industrial decay, foreign dependency and monetary excess which relate back to trade deficits, among other things. But in the end analysis, monetary policy is at the root of inflation, due to supply of money outpacing supply of goods and services.
This post was edited on 5/29/25 at 10:31 am
Posted by IvoryBillMatt
Member since Mar 2020
9213 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:31 am to
quote:

So you’re saying that that portion of the order was not referring to Guatemala, either by mistake or not?


Are you being dim on purpose? Here's the ORDER in its ENTIRETY. I see no reference to Guatemala. I see no typos. Please produce the part of the ORDER to which you're referring.



Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17357 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:32 am to
If only we could have this kind of sensibilities within the government
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17357 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:34 am to
As well as another branch seemingly trying to make moves on another branch’s power
Posted by BBONDS25
Member since Mar 2008
57332 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:37 am to
quote:

I see no reference to Guatemala.


Then you need to go back to law school. When an order refers to a specific section of law you can reference that section in the petition to determine what the order grants. Very basic stuff. Guess what you will find there….
This post was edited on 5/29/25 at 9:40 am
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17357 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:38 am to
Wasn’t that El Salvador denial exclusive, because of threats, specifically to that destination and not a total denial of deportation ?
Posted by Nosevens
Member since Apr 2019
17357 posts
Posted on 5/29/25 at 9:42 am to
“Seriously, please answer that question. The case is still pending. Why hasn't DOJ adopted the Guatemala argument “

Obviously it’s moot because he ain’t coming back
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