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Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:20 pm to mahdragonz
quote:
Women who get breast implants have body dysphoria on what they think their gender should look like.
This has to be one of the dumbest analogies I've seen a groomer make to justify their fetishes. Just wow.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:20 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
But you would have to be willing to except a lie to agree with this concept. Gender and sex are and have always been tied together. Trying to change the definition will never change the science.
The sex is science. Gender in the binary sense has absolutely not been always been tied to sex as there are cultures around the world that have 2,3 even up to 5 genders. Its not about believing a lie, its about having a change in perception. I'm not commenting on if we should accept surgical/transition as a course of treatment for trans folks especially for children, just the simply accepting them as the gender they identify.
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 1:27 pm
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:32 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
Gender in the binary sense has absolutely not been always been tied to sex as there are cultures around the world that have 2,3 even up to 5 genders.
Sone cultures believed in ritualistic child sacrifice too. Bad ideas are bad ideas.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:35 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
The concept that gender and sex are separate and gender is just a social construct makes sense to me. Its not a new concept either and cultures have accepted this concept through out history.
It is a new concept and cultures have not accepted this concept throughout history.
John Money is pretty much universally regarded as the first person to separate the two in 1955. Then 2nd wave feminists in the 1960s and 70s popularized the idea among the general public.
All of the "Two-Spirit," "Sekrata," "Hijra," nonsense is propaganda. If you actually look into those things you will not find what we think of as a "transgendered person." You will find descriptions of eunuchs, people who emphasize that they have both masculine and feminine personality traits or spiritual traits, gay or bi-sexual people, etc. But you will not find evidence that other cultures recognized a male as a female or a female as a male, which is what we're trying to force everyone to do and which is essential to the claim that sex and gender are entirely separate.
Just the fact that these cultures had different names for whatever group is being discussed is self-evident proof that they did not view this question the way it is being framed today.
They didn't say that their word for "man" or "woman" applied to anyone who claimed it, regardless of any other characteristic they might have had. They looked at the characteristics and created a new word to describe that set of characteristics.
What we called a gay, masculine woman or feminine, bisexual man, for example, they had other names for.
Those are not "additional genders."
This post was edited on 7/19/23 at 1:40 pm
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:37 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Sone cultures believed in ritualistic child sacrifice too. Bad ideas are bad ideas.
How is accepting the gender one identifies as comparable to child sacrifice or a bad idea in your opinion?
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:40 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
cultures around the world that have 2,3 even up to 5 genders.
And until a few years ago the DSM listed trans as a mental illness. Using history isn’t a great argument. I don’t care at all what someone wants to identify as. And I have no opinion on whether the DSM was right or wrong. Just leave the kids alone.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:41 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
The sex is science. Gender in the binary sense has absolutely not been always been tied to sex as there are cultures around the world that have 2,3 even up to 5 genders. Its not about believing a lie, its about having a change in perception. I'm not commenting
I live in the United States where gender and sex have always been tied together. " A change in perception" is just another way to say let's change the definition to fit our agenda.
Have you noticed in America they call a new pregnancy reveal " Gender reveal" and not " sex of baby reveal". Do you think a doctor sends a social question form down the ultrasound tube or do they look for a penis to decide gender. You can identify as what ever you choose but you do not have the right to demand I agree with it. There are 2 genders, male and female, anything else is mental illness. Approving the mental illness doesn't help the ill.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:41 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
there are cultures around the world that have 2,3 even up to 5 genders.
Most of these examples are pretty unconvincing. They’re usually tied to ceremonial roles in non-Western religion and share far more in common with the idea of a tomboy or femme than a transgender as we define trans in our culture.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:45 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
How is accepting the gender one identifies as comparable to child sacrifice or a bad idea in your opinion?
Because truth is not fluid. A woman cannot be a man and killing a child won’t stop a volcano from erupting.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:46 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
But you will not find evidence that other cultures recognized a male as a female or a female as a male
I didnt realize that is what transgendered folks were arguing. In fact I've never heard one argue that one's born sex could be changed.... although they do use the term assigned male or female at birth
quote:
st the fact that these cultures had different names for whatever group is being discussed is self-evident proof that they did not view this question the way it is being framed today.
Thats a fair point and I agree in the sense that I think the terms transwomen and transman should remain distinct identifying terms
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:50 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
How is accepting the gender one identifies as comparable to child sacrifice or a bad idea in your opinion?
So if a mentally ill person thinks they are a bird should we agree and let them jump off of buildings?
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:54 pm to Robin Masters
quote:
Because truth is not fluid
And men cannot rise from the dead....should we oppose Christianity on those same grounds?
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:57 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
So if a mentally ill person thinks they are a bird should we agree and let them jump off of buildings?
No we should not allow mentally ill individuals to harm themselves or endanger others. And like I said Im not addressing physical alteration. I'm not even saying this is what I believe necessarily just having a discussion.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:57 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
I think the terms transwomen and transman should remain distinct identifying terms
If they were actually a man or a real woman then they wouldn't have to use the word " Trans". That word means becoming something you're not. Trans women are just feminine men and trans men are just masculine females. You cannot physically become something you're not.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 1:58 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
And men cannot rise from the dead....should we oppose Christianity on those same grounds?
No church tells people they can rise from the dead. Please try and be serious.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:00 pm to HoopyD
you see, it requires powerful drugs and mutilating surgeries to be one's "true" self
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:00 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
we should not allow mentally ill individuals to harm themselves
Yet that is what is being advocated with the use of toxic hormones and surgeries. So by supporting someone trying to be a trans is allowing them to harm themselves.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:01 pm to ThuperThumpin
quote:
No we should not allow mentally ill individuals to harm themselves or endanger others.
Oh, so you’re opposed to transgender surgery then. Glad to see you’re on the side of reason.
Posted on 7/19/23 at 2:05 pm to SOSFAN
quote:
So by supporting someone trying to be a trans is allowing them to harm themselves.
I'm specifically addressing our culture accepting how one gender id's and was thinking out loud if we were more accepting of how one id's if that may lessen the desire for some of these folks to physically alter themselves.
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