re: Foremost Ukraine experts: This War is the USA's fault

I think I do just fine. I certainly don’t have any trouble figuring out who the good guys and bad guys are. You seem to have trouble in that area.

If there was some corrupt as EU US money laundering BS going on on my doorstep. I would be pretty pissed off especially since he gave fair warning but we had to frick around and find out

Ah yes, I got in my uniform, wearing an American flag, and invaded Ukraine. How the literal frick is it anyones fault other than Putin? Look, we may not have been perfect, but I never blatantly shot cruise missiles at apartment buildings, nor have I used illegal weapons against civilians. I also never put landmines on negotiated evacuation routes. Congrats! You are supporting the modern day tyrant, and blaming your own republic for his atrocities

Don’t get so bogged down in the stupidity that you forget the big picture. Putin’s regime is currently being evil

quote:

---

I certainly don’t have any trouble figuring out who the good guys and bad guys are. You seem to have trouble in that area.

---

Some relevant questions and indisputable facts in that regard:

You do know G H W Bush promised the Soviets and Russia NATO would not take advantage of the situation if the Warsaw Pact dissolved, right?

You do know that Clinton, "W", Obama, and Biden all broke that promise, right?

You do know supposedly defensive NATO was used as an OFFENSIVE military force, targeting Russian allies during the Clinton Administration --- even to the point of forcing Yeltsin to threaten Russian War with NATO as a response, right?

On the heels of NATO's OFFENSIVE military operations in Europe, you do know Clinton twisted the arms of several existing NATO members in order to add three ex-Warsaw Pact nations to NATO. The Eastward expansion occurred over the vigorous objections of Yeltsin and a massive consensus of Russians, right?

You do know that Clinton's push to do so horribly undercut Yeltsin, and elevated a Russian nationalist named Putin into power, right?

You do know that one of Putin's earliest propositions to the US and NATO to deescalate perception of threat was for Russia to join NATO, but Clinton et al refused, right?

You do know in 2002, "W" completely disregarded his daddy's promises and Russia concern, and pushed for the addition of Bulgaria, Estonia, Latvia, Lithuania, Romania, Slovakia, and Slovenia to NATO, right?

You do know that at that time, not just Putin, but Russians across the board said this is as far as it goes. They felt, especially given NATO's previous offensive military actions in Europe, that NATO acquisition of Ukraine and/or Georgia would be directly threatening to Russia, so they issued a "bright red line" against such action, right?

Yet just 6yrs later, "W" and Condi disregarded Russian red-line warnings and pushed for the addition of Ukraine and Georgia to NATO. You do know that right?

As if to confirm Russian concern, a NATO agreement emboldened Georgia initiated hostilities targeting Russian border-area peacekeepers in August 2008. That action elicited a decisive Russian response which left no question as to Russian seriousness about its "bright red line". You do know that, right?

You do know that Obama was eager to push the Ukraine/Georgia NATO joinder, but frustrated by Ukrainian Government intransigence toward that end, he and his friends orchestrated a coup and instilled a Pro-NATO leader, right?

You do know that action triggered the Russian takeover of Crimea rather than risk NATO occupation of Crimean Naval Ports which would amount to cessation of the Black Sea to NATO, right?

You do know about Biden's continued December discussions with Zelensky about joining NATO despite all of the above, right?

------

This is not about "good guys" and "bad guys". There are no good guys in this! None! Discussion of "fault" is about provocation, in this case needless provocation. That was and is our doing. This was a war we provoked. It was avoidable.

quote:

---

I can't believe some of you guys take something with worse production quality

---

So your issue is with "production quality" rather than actual factual basis?

ABC's video purporting to show “slaughter in Syria” ( but which actually came from a gun range in Kentucky) was excellent production quality. You must have loved that.

quote:

---

This post is pure bull shite.

---

quote:

---

BoarEd

---

Please explain your theory on the Santa Claus tracking app again. That was pure Gold.

quote:

---

It’s time Zelensky drops the MOAB of all the Clinton, Obama, Biden, Pelosi, Schumer, Kerry, Graham, McConnell, etc family crimes laundering money from American tax paying citizens back to their own filthy pockets.

---

Those are the folks running the federal government that he needs to prop up his country. Putin is more likely to release the data to justify the war than Z. It’s better used as blackmail to continue funds than anything else to him.

Agree. Having a week Biden administration contributed to this and may have done deliberatly.

quote:

---

Let’s put the blame for this war where it belongs and that would be right square on the shoulders of Vlad Putin.

---