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re: For other PT Catholics on new Pope? All things considered… win, loss, or even?
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:27 pm to 4cubbies
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:27 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
Respectfully, it doesn’t look like you know what communism is. The Church does not teach that the State should own everything, including the means of production.
You aren't going to win this argument with most folks, but some people have an issue with separating what the Church doctrine really is versus their ideology in American politics. They bleed into each other for some folks.
Loving ones neighbor and respecting/taking care of the poor and needy have always been staples of the church...
And as far as the environment goes, why wouldn't we want to protect the world that God has given us? Now whether or not you believe in anthropogenic climate change is one thing, but I think all Catholic should agree that protecting the environment in a good, Christian thing.
This post was edited on 5/8/25 at 8:29 pm
2
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:28 pm to Slippy
quote:
He is very Francis-like with regard to caring for the poor and migrants, etc, but it is unrealistic to expect a Pope not to have those views.
Watch for the nuance in these statements. Everyone supports caring for the poor. The problems come when you start using Liberation Theology statements and fomenting division between nations.
Pope Francis had a bad understanding of economics as do most socialists and left leaning folks. They think that unequal outcomes, or income disparities is prima facia evidence of abuse and oppression.
They seem to think there is a finite pot of wealth, and that if some have more, by definition, others have had their share reduced.
Pope Francis decried the fact that 20% of the people had 80% of the wealth. He seemed completely ignorant of the Pareto Distribution principle.
None of that lessens the responsibility of all Christians to give charity and to care for the poor and suffering to their greatest extent possible. That doesn’t always mean just giving cash, but also a whole host of things including teaching irresponsible people to be responsible.
We really dont know yet how Pope Leo will think and teach on these topics. We shall see.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:32 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Jimbeaux
Valid point.
I didn't like Francis for his careless use of words in explaining things.
I didn't like him when he talked about those issues you brought as well.
I still prayed for him and his soul.
I think he was a very good person at heart, he just couldn't express it with his ideas quite right.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:33 pm to gaetti15
quote:
You aren't going to win this argument with most folks, but some people have an issue with separating what the Church doctrine really is versus their ideology in American politics. They bleed into each other for some folks. Loving ones neighbor and respecting/taking care of the poor and needy have always been staples of the church... And as far as the environment goes, why wouldn't we want to protect the world that God has given us? Now whether or not you believe in anthropogenic climate change is one thing, but I think all Catholic should agree that protecting the environment in a good, Christian thing.
Good points. Nevertheless, the devil is in the details. It’s about maintaining the proper order of the Good.
Caring for the natural world is good.
Stopping all nitrogen fertilizers to save the planet, which would cause massive famine is not good.
Protecting people is a greater good than protecting the planet. (While obviously recognizing that some balance is usually required.)
This post was edited on 5/8/25 at 8:34 pm
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:34 pm to Jimbeaux
quote:
Stopping all nitrogen fertilizers to save the planet, which would cause massive famine is not good.
Protecting people is a greater good than protecting the planet. (While obviously recognizing that some balance is usually required.)
Yeah we are on the same wavelength!
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:48 pm to burger bearcat
Its a win for Orthodoxy, Lord willing we will see many more Catholics convert to The True Faith
Posted on 5/8/25 at 8:58 pm to 4cubbies
quote:
he often peaches about loving one another. Even people who weren’t accidentally born in this country.
Amen to loving one another. It’s the second greatest commandment- according to Jesus, who is God. Check. We agree. Now, how do you define love? How do you balance wise stewardship with charity? The USA is, by far, the most charitable nation on earth. Just by paying your taxes, you are committing an enormous act of charity. We’re working everyday to make a little extra to help those in need- all across the globe. Good for you. And me. And (some) of them.
What a tragedy it would be; to destroy the most charitable nation on earth, and the absolute last bastion of freedom (what remains), because we let our emotions override our logic. Think of the children. Seriously.
Furthermore, how do you separate globalism (which is what this mass (illegal) invasion is all about) from the Tower of Babel? It’s the same. God said to spread out; to the borders of the nations that He appoints. Gave us different languages- for a reason. Gave us different cultures- for a reason. Why? Dunno. His ways are above our ways.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 9:30 pm to BlackPawnMartyr
quote:The men that cast their votes are humans with opinions and beliefs of their own.
Every pope decided by the conclave has been a 10/10. All popes pray to God then make their pick creating a consensus pick of God's will. How could the pick ever be anything but a 10/10, unless you think the whole religion is a scam?
Ill never say the whole religion is a scam, but it’s always been political and when politics are at the core of the operation and men with power and influence run things and make global decisions, shady dealings are a possibility.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 9:33 pm to burger bearcat
Time will tell and I am trying to have an open mind, but when the two most excited people about it are "Fr." James Martin and Cupich, that doesn't bode well.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 9:38 pm to Prodigal Son
quote:
Just by paying your taxes, you are committing an enormous act of charity
This is not true at all. By paying your taxes, you are ensuring that money will not be taken from
You by force and you’re keeping yourself out of legal proceedings. Taxes are not charity and perverting charity to encompass performing a required duty is shameful.
quote:I find this line of thinking offensive and lazy.
We’re working everyday to make a little extra to help those in need- all across the globe. Good for you. And me. And (some) of them.
quote:
What a tragedy it would be; to destroy the most charitable nation on earth, and the absolute last bastion of freedom (what remains), because we let our emotions override our logic. Think of the children. Seriously.
No one is advocating for the destruction of anything.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 9:42 pm to Mid Iowa Tiger
quote:
Time will tell and I am trying to have an open mind, but when the two most excited people about it are "Fr." James Martin and Cupich, that doesn't bode well.
Michael Knowles is cautiously optimistic. Hopefully he's right.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 9:49 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
All things considered… win, loss, or even?
It’s too early to tell.
The new pope has a concept of humanism that was developed both in the United States and also in Peru. Those are very different perspectives. It’s difficult to predict where he will lead the Church.
The United States is a really big tent when it comes to Catholicism. We have a robust justice and charity wing of the church and a perhaps larger robust conservative wing, both of which share space.
In Peru, like most of South and Central America, the struggles for justice and self determination are often in opposition to US hegemony. The struggles of the poor in South America are against huge forces of control from drug gangs and governments, both of which serve US and European interests. It’s a very different place than the US.
I would expect this Pope to embrace the traditional teachings. There won’t be women priests or gay marriage, although he will likely continue reaching out to all people. Where the US super conservatives will criticize this Pope will be regarding mercy toward the poor and underprivileged. That is a very traditional Church teaching. Modern right wingers don’t believe in mercy and service toward the poor. But promoting mercy and support of the poor and displaced people has been a part of the church since the beginning.
Posted on 5/8/25 at 10:38 pm to SaintInBham
quote:
If he sticks with his Aquinas education and his namesake he will at least be consistent.
This
This post was edited on 5/8/25 at 10:39 pm
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:03 am to SpqrTiger
quote:
It’s a win if he drives re-engagement with the Catholic Church in the United States.
He's Peruvian, and is pro-illegal immigrant.
Also, you might want to read this stunning article from the Chicago Sun-Times.
This is not some crackpot conspiracy site. It is the Sun-Times.
Pope Leo XIV's involvement in covering up for predator priests
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:05 am to RT1941
quote:
The men that cast their votes are humans with opinions and beliefs of their own.
quote:
shady dealings are a possibility.
This is a cowardly excuse. There are well over a 100 men who are the religious leaders of the church, who are praying to God then making their pick. Only a strong majority vote is taken. If nearly all the leaders are more political than religious, and prayer doesn't work, then the only logical conclusion is the whole religion is a fake and a scam. There is no excuse. If it's not a scam then everyone complaining about God's pick thinking they know better is both silly and heresy in it's own right.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:07 am to Sofaking2
quote:
Prevost had some missteps as well concerning moving a pedophile priest near an elementary school and not telling anyone. Also had issues with sexual assault of 2 women that weren’t fully investigated.
Full story here.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:09 am to GreenRockTiger
quote:
the Vatican cleared him
So, they investigated themselves and said no harm done?
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:10 am to burger bearcat
I left the Catholic Church because of Francis and it looks like I won’t be back until I’m in my mid or late sixties.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:12 am to 4cubbies
quote:
The Church does not teach that the State should own everything, including the means of production.
They may not teach it, but they live it.
The Vatican is a sovereign state that owns everything, including the means of production.
Posted on 5/9/25 at 6:12 am to burger bearcat
Left celebrating that he doesn't like Vance. These are also the same people who are spiritual but not religious, reads their horoscopes, and slanders the the name of Jesus Christ.
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