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"Fiscally conservative but socially liberal"
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:00 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:00 am
Have talked to some people thar agree that we should have limited government and shouldn't have such high taxes, and are concerned about the federal debt. But also are sympathetic to liberal causes like abortion, LGBT, and what they call over incarceration (which I disagree this is even the case), BLM, etc.
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways. All the fiscal irresponsibility goes right along with the social irresponsibility. As a recovering libertarian myself, I have realized the flaws in this kind of thinking. Either you are pushing the culture your way, or the other side is pushing it their way, and it always comes with coat tails (in the form of a big federal government, spending, inflation, and taxes)
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways. All the fiscal irresponsibility goes right along with the social irresponsibility. As a recovering libertarian myself, I have realized the flaws in this kind of thinking. Either you are pushing the culture your way, or the other side is pushing it their way, and it always comes with coat tails (in the form of a big federal government, spending, inflation, and taxes)
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Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:01 am to burger bearcat
quote:
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways.
Your binary thinking is what tears countries apart.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:02 am to burger bearcat
I'm sure it'll annoy some on here, but I think this particular combination is a major part of the rot in the conservative movement.
It also often seems like a compromise - leaving behind cultural baggage to clean up economic issues - but it's been a complete failure anyway.
It also often seems like a compromise - leaving behind cultural baggage to clean up economic issues - but it's been a complete failure anyway.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:04 am to burger bearcat
It's better than being fiscally liberal and socially liberal, I guess...
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:11 am to burger bearcat
John Adams said “Our Constitution was made only for a moral and religious People. It is wholly inadequate to the government of any other.”
I used to think like a libertarian fiscal conservative/ social liberal (except I’ve always been pro-life). This only works as long as people are reasonable and a significant portion don’t go full retard. When you have to legislate that it’s not ok to teach elementary school children about sexual practices and normalize tranny sickness, and those who disagree with this make a virtue of killing babies, this type of view become untenable.
I used to think like a libertarian fiscal conservative/ social liberal (except I’ve always been pro-life). This only works as long as people are reasonable and a significant portion don’t go full retard. When you have to legislate that it’s not ok to teach elementary school children about sexual practices and normalize tranny sickness, and those who disagree with this make a virtue of killing babies, this type of view become untenable.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:11 am to jrobic4
quote:
It's better than being fiscally liberal and socially liberal, I guess...
I think I might actually disagree to some extent. It gives people a false sense of comfort. "We can have it both ways". They don't realize the social rot they are tolerating will lead to economic rot the next generation. In some ways it is worse, it's kicking the can down the road to your kids, instead of cleaning up the mess in front of you.
Look at Gen Z. There are studies coming out saying about a 1/3 of zoomers identify as on the rainbow spectrum. These people are going to be mentally unstable and perfect little Marxists to buy into the economic poison they will be fed. They certainly aren't going to start strong nuclear families, and be business entrepreneurs. This will affect greatly affect the economy.
This post was edited on 5/5/22 at 10:13 am
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:14 am to burger bearcat
Being fiscally "conservative" and socially "liberal" is really the only philosophically defensible position.
It all ties to property rights. Government should exist only to defend property rights. You can't take the position, for example, that government doesn't have the right to take more from me in taxes (because "it's mine") while also taking the position that the government should ban marijuana. If it's mine, it's mine.
The issue really is that people cannot differentiate between the role of government and personal beliefs. Just because I believe cocaine is bad doesn't mean I think government should ban its use.
It all ties to property rights. Government should exist only to defend property rights. You can't take the position, for example, that government doesn't have the right to take more from me in taxes (because "it's mine") while also taking the position that the government should ban marijuana. If it's mine, it's mine.
The issue really is that people cannot differentiate between the role of government and personal beliefs. Just because I believe cocaine is bad doesn't mean I think government should ban its use.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:15 am to burger bearcat
How about fiscally liberal but socially conservative?
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:15 am to burger bearcat
quote:
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways.
Of course you can.
And "socially liberal" can just mean "Government shouldn't have a role in this, more freedom to the people".
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:17 am to Fun Bunch
quote:
And "socially liberal" can just mean "Government shouldn't have a role in this, more freedom to the people".
This is the entire problem. 90% of people out there believe government exists to do the things they support.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:17 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
How about fiscally liberal but socially conservative?
I was about to say that in a vacuum, I might be here
Of course, it depends on how we're defining fiscally liberal. I'm not in favor of reckless spending and waste, we must keep the house in order. But in a socially conservative state with pretty high agreement with those tenets, I'd be far more fiscally liberal in the sense of social safety nets, healthcare, child leave, etc. etc.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:18 am to Fun Bunch
Yeah.
Spinning the opening post in on its head, I think the “conservatives that love big government when it suits them” are far more damaging
Spinning the opening post in on its head, I think the “conservatives that love big government when it suits them” are far more damaging
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:19 am to Ex-Popcorn
quote:
Being fiscally "conservative" and socially "liberal" is really the only philosophically defensible position.
I don't think so. A state that is socially conservative in the sense that it reinforces socially conservative ideas - personal responsibility, merit, hard work, centrality of faith, etc. - is far more likely to successfully implement and sustain fiscally liberal measures with higher degrees of support and effectiveness.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:20 am to burger bearcat
quote:nonsense.
you can't have it both ways.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:21 am to Ex-Popcorn
Popcorn , that was well-said. Kudos
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:22 am to burger bearcat
I used to think of myself in these terms, as somewhat socially liberal. I was in favor of gay marriage as a matter of constitutional law long before Barak Obama was (at least openly).
But the liberals have gone so far left its total insanity now.
Now I just say I'm in favor of freedom. The least amount of government intrusion into our lives as possible.
But the liberals have gone so far left its total insanity now.
Now I just say I'm in favor of freedom. The least amount of government intrusion into our lives as possible.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:23 am to Pettifogger
quote:
A state that is socially conservative in the sense that it reinforces socially conservative ideas - personal responsibility, merit, hard work, centrality of faith, etc.
See? That's exactly the problem. You believe in God. Great. But you are using your personal belief as justification for the role of government. That's just not a defensible position.
And believe it or not, personal responsibility, merit, hard work is exactly what you get when you remove government from the equation.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:32 am to Ex-Popcorn
quote:
See? That's exactly the problem. You believe in God. Great. But you are using your personal belief as justification for the role of government. That's just not a defensible position.
Every government has some form of a moral framework. Where does morality come from? That can vary depending on that country. This doesn't mean you need to be a theocracy like Iran. But anyone who has read the founding documents would know the Constitution is based on a moral framework, and that morality comes from a Judeo-Chrisrian and Biblical worldview.
You want Drag Queen story hour and abortion on demand? Fine, go ahead, but don't also bitch why inflation is through the roof and half your paycheck is going to federal government programs you don't even benefit from.
You can't have your cake and eat it to. All the social lunacy is tied at the hip with the economical lunacy.
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:37 am to Pettifogger
quote:
leaving behind cultural baggage to clean up economic issues
If you don't change the liberal mindset in general, you'll never get the financial issues solved
Posted on 5/5/22 at 10:39 am to burger bearcat
quote:
My explanation, is you can't have it both ways.
Well when you have half a brain, you can't separate the good from the stupid.
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