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Started By
Message
re: FCC to free Internet From Obama's “Net Neutrality” Rules
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:08 pm to Korkstand
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:08 pm to Korkstand
quote:
AFAIK consumers got pissed, the FCC might have laid out a fine (on what grounds I don't know), or maybe they just stopped doing it.
There's your answer. None of this required Title II classification to address.
quote:
Ah, so your issue is you have a complete and total lack of understanding of the topic of NN. All of your posts make sense now.
What do data caps have to do with prioritizing packets?
You not capping netflix data. You're capping ALL data.
Which is why data caps still exist even after NN was enacted.
1
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:10 pm to JohnnyKilroy
quote:
FCC says it wants to reduce their "power" by removing NN rules.
Ok?
quote:
Telecoms say that NN stifles competition.
It's not just NN. It's Title II classification. And they're correct.
quote:
Why does anyone trust these two entities? No way the government would ever lie right? Certainly not!
I don't trust the ISPs. I don't trust the government.
But NN is the wrong regulation for the wrong problem.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:11 pm to Centinel
quote:You're wrong. Period. That's easy.
ISPs are not natural monopolies. Period.
quote:At least we kind of agree on something.
I'm not saying ISPs shouldn't face regulation. I'm saying NN and Title II is not the way to do it.
quote:Except, as I mentioned, data caps are "the norm", are highly anti-competitive, and I don't see any legal means to address them.
We have other regulatory mechanisms in place. Anti-trust laws and the FCC can both be leveraged to handle any anti-competitive issues among ISPs.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:18 pm to Centinel
quote:I am not arguing specifically for Title II classification.
There's your answer. None of this required Title II classification to address.
quote:Look at AT&T letting their DirecTV data bypass their arbitrary caps. That's anti-competitive.
What do data caps have to do with prioritizing packets?
quote:Except, of course, the data that the ISP wants to allow, whether because they produced it or have collected fees to allow it through. That's anti-competitive.
You not capping netflix data. You're capping ALL data.
quote:Data caps still exist because there is a loophole in the rules. The ISPs will find and exploit any loophole to give themselves a competitive advantage. Now, instead of plugging the hole, we're knocking the whole fricking bottom out.
Which is why data caps still exist even after NN was enacted.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:21 pm to Korkstand
quote:
Look at AT&T letting their DirecTV data bypass their arbitrary caps. That's anti-competitive.
ive already brought that up multiple times
it proves caps are bullshite
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:22 pm to Centinel
quote:
ISPs are not natural monopolies. Period
Yes they are, period.
A natural monopoly is a monopoly in an industry in which high infrastructural costs and other barriers to entry relative to the size of the market give the largest supplier in an industry, often the first supplier in a market, an overwhelming advantage over potential competitors.
What would you call an industry that for instance, in Seattle, requires 450-650 million in infastructure investment alone before they can even begin to collect a dollar of revenue? Which requires millions of ongoing additional costs of running that operation.That was the cost of their municipal fiber infrastructure investment. So you are talking about an industry with a barrier to entry of 100’s of millions of dollars. For a market space that will require major consumer capture to make the numbers work. Likely require itself to be in debt for years, if not decades. Which is just another enormous layer of uncertainty that discourages entry.
Which is why places like Lafayette, after trying to entice more companies to make that investment, gave up and spent years battling the arduous state laws that were pushed by ISP’s to build their municipal fiber system.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 3:50 pm to fooz
quote:
I have spectrum and run vpn at the router level, so all of my traffic is encrypted. I have zero issues with speed or throttling. So unless they plan to throttle/shape all encrypted traffic (which they won't) then I'm not worried about it.
Two things here
90% of users will have no idea how to do that.
And when you tunnel your traffic you slow down your own speeds.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:21 pm to StraightCashHomey21
I think we're fricked man. End of the internet as we know it.
Hope everyone upgrades to the $10 porn package.... especially guys like ShortyRob who can't wait to pay for it.
Hope everyone upgrades to the $10 porn package.... especially guys like ShortyRob who can't wait to pay for it.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:43 pm to Ag Zwin
quote:
How about we wait until it DOES happen, craft the policy based on the facts, and then hold violators accountable?
But they won't be held accountable because the rules won't fricking exist at the time they are throttling the networks and markets.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:56 pm to biggsc
Net Neutrality is a perfect example of where the "zero government" free market only crowd falls apart in the face of reality. Without regulation, the free market is a nightmare of monopolies exploiting customers for de facto commodities.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:56 pm to biggsc
Nobody on the_donald is talking about Net Neutrality and it kinda pisses me off. Everyone should be on the same side with this issue. If anybody is supporting removing this legislation, they are more than likely being paid by the big telecom companies.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:57 pm to biggsc
The plutocrats win again and the rubes will keep voting for them.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 4:58 pm to fooz
quote:
I have spectrum and run vpn at the router level, so all of my traffic is encrypted. I have zero issues with speed or throttling. So unless they plan to throttle/shape all encrypted traffic (which they won't) then I'm not worried about it.
Problem with that is, a lot of websites won't let you access if they can tell you are browsing through a vpn. Netflix is one of those sites.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:16 pm to GetCocky11
quote:
It can potentially lead to ISPs charging more for access to certain websites depending on the content.
Did they before NN?
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:20 pm to Chuker
quote:
quote:I can never remember if NN is good or bad
Just remember the cable co's want to abolish NN. So there is your answer.
And once we all get screwed, people need to remember who allowed it.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:21 pm to TigersFan64
quote:Somehow the so called small government crowd will blame this on Democrats.
And once we all get screwed, people need to remember who allowed it.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:33 pm to Tigerdev
quote:
quote:And once we all get screwed, people need to remember who allowed it.
Somehow the so called small government crowd will blame this on Democrats.
Very likely, if people allow it. Just like in the next ten years, when their sham "middle-class" tax cut adds trillions to the national debt and doesn't boost the economy nearly as much as they are claiming it will, they will try and blame the added debt on the Democrats.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:40 pm to TigersFan64
quote:
And once we all get screwed, people need to remember who allowed i
They won’t.
Do any of these Trumpkins remember when they passed legislation to let ISP’s sell your data without consent? Let alone plan to hold Trump accountable for it on principle?
We have entered a point in time where tribalism has gotten so thick that the belief in ones tribe has led to the core of that group rationalizing any and everything there side does. No longer are politicians held to standards or principles, just simply excused of any failures of principle or cronyism as long as they are perceived by the tribalist as one of their own. When you believe the worse of your tribe is always and forever better than the best of the other tribe, there is no depth you can sink to and no broken promise or principle you won’t look past.
And if this forum and The Donald is a bellwether, the Trump base is not nearly that consumed with things like the minutes of tax policy or internet regulation as long as they are given a steady diet of social grievances and identity politics to get worked up over and circle the wagons about.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:43 pm to Triple Bogey
quote:
Nobody on the_donald is talking about Net Neutrality and it kinda pisses me off. Everyone should be on the same side with this issue. If anybody is supporting removing this legislation, they are more than likely being paid by the big telecom companies.
Yep, this shouldn't have anything to do with partisan politics, this is very bad for all consumers.
Posted on 11/21/17 at 5:44 pm to bonhoeffer45
quote:
We have entered a point in time where tribalism
I've had this position since WELL before Trump was a gleam in the presidency's eye
And you crying tribalism while you focus ENTIRELY on Trump is rich
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