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Started By
Message
re: Does the Holy Land belong to The Church?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:51 am to Mo Jeaux
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:51 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
No, I’m not. See, this belief was not a part of Christianity for almost 2000 years. You’re reading parts of the Bible written retrospectively and interpreting them in a prospective manner.
You accused me of following the teachings of Scofield. Where does your,” Replacement Theology” originate?
1
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:51 am to RollTide1987
quote:
And true.
It’s your truth
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:52 am to SkiUtah420
quote:
Does the Holy Land belong to The Church?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:54 am to Revelator
quote:
You accused me of following the teachings of Scofield. Where does your,” Replacement Theology” originate?
You do. You may not call it that, and that’s fine. But you most assuredly subscribe to teachings for which he was a very vocal, and one of the first, proponents.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:55 am to SkiUtah420
quote:
'We cannot give approval to this movement. We cannot prevent the Jews from going to Jerusalem – but we could never sanction it. The soil of Jerusalem, if it was not always sacred, has been sanctified by the life of Jesus Christ. As the head of the Church I cannot tell you anything different. The Jews have not recognized our Lord, therefore we cannot recognize the Jewish people.“And so, if you come to Palestine and settle your people there, we shall have churches and priests ready to baptize all of you.”
I agree with this viewpoint. But, now that the State of Israel is here, the USA should act toward Israel as it would act towards any other Western ally nation.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:57 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
You do. You may not call it that, and that’s fine. But you most assuredly subscribe to teachings for which he was a very vocal, and one of the first, proponents.
You didn’t answer my question
Posted on 11/4/23 at 9:58 am to RollTide1987
quote:
not really a Christian.
Young man, this is not what the Catholic Catechism teaches.
You are better than this. You should know that spreading this sort of inaccuracy is very destructive.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:01 am to Revelator
Well, I didn’t answer because you called it my theology. I don’t subscribe to it, but I have studied enough history to know that it was the prevailing theological viewpoint for the entire history of the church until the late 19th century.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:03 am to Champagne
quote:
Young man, this is not what the Catholic Catechism teaches.
Doesn’t the Catechism teach that we who are outside the Catholic Church are simply wayward brethren who simply don’t know we are still part of the Universal church? Or are we still viewed as heretics to be burned at the stake?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:05 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Well, I didn’t answer because you called it my theology. I don’t subscribe to it, but I have studied enough history to know that it was the prevailing theological viewpoint for the entire history of the church until the late 19th century.
In the simple texts of the Bible, it states that we as gentiles were grafted into the true vine, but Israel is the natural branches so we shouldn’t boast if they have been temporarily lopped off. Where in the Bible does it say the Gentiles have replaced Israel?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:07 am to SkiUtah420
quote:Paul was an ... inventive ... individual.
St Paul in the letter to the Romans makes the distinction that since Judaism/"National Israel" has rejected Christ, and converted Jews, Gentiles and the Church have become the "New Israel", implying that all blessings to Israel now come through the church - The Abrhamaic Covenant has moved from "Israel" to the Church, which is eloquently described in Paul's Olive Tree Parable
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:11 am to Champagne
There has always been two Isreals throughout the Bible. The nation of Isreal and the true Isreal( God's faithful remnant).
The faithful remnant were converted at Pentecost into the Church. This is explained numerous times in several books of the New Testament.
There is one root(faithful remnant) and the gentiles are grafted into that root.
The modern state of Isreal has no eschatological significance to Christians.
The faithful remnant were converted at Pentecost into the Church. This is explained numerous times in several books of the New Testament.
There is one root(faithful remnant) and the gentiles are grafted into that root.
The modern state of Isreal has no eschatological significance to Christians.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:15 am to Lima Whiskey
quote:
The western faiths, and I include the Roman church, are or have become pacifist, which is a problem for us.
The Church has long been a pacifist organization because Christ Himself preached peace. However, there have been certain theologians throughout the history of the Church (St. Augustine being the most famous) who have developed so-called "Just War" philosophies. The Church adheres to those principles.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:15 am to rooster108bm
I mean, theology aside, the Holy Land, and really any land, belongs to whoever holds it, does it not?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:17 am to Antoninus
quote:
Paul was an ... inventive ... individual.
I mean...if Christ was the actual Messiah and the Son of God, and his followers were the recipients and successors to His message, doesn't it stand to reason that the movement they created in His image would be the natural progression and successor to Judaism?
It's also interesting to note that Temple Judaism died out forever when the Romans destroyed the Temple of Solomon in AD 70 - not long after the followers of Christ effectively broke off from Judaism and started their own religion.
This post was edited on 11/4/23 at 10:19 am
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:22 am to SkiUtah420
Are they up to date on property taxes?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:30 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:
Revelator and the rest of the Scofield dispensationalists will be in here soon to tell you that you’re wrong.
1-2-3-4
I declare a Holy War.
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:45 am to Flats
quote:
1-2-3-4 I declare a Holy War.
Who attacked who?
Posted on 11/4/23 at 10:50 am to SkiUtah420
Romans 11:18
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree
25 ¶ Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree
do not be arrogant toward the branches. If you are, remember it is not you who support the root, but the root that supports you.
19 Then you will say, “Branches were broken off so that I might be grafted in.”
20 That is true. They were broken off because of their unbelief, but you stand fast through faith. So do not become proud, but fear.
21 For if God did not spare the natural branches, neither will he spare you.
22 Note then the kindness and the severity of God: severity toward those who have fallen, but God’s kindness to you, provided you continue in his kindness. Otherwise you too will be cut off.
23 And even they, if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.
24 For if you were cut from what is by nature a wild olive tree, and grafted, contrary to nature, into a cultivated olive tree, how much more will these, the natural branches, be grafted back into their own olive tree
25 ¶ Lest you be wise in your own sight, I do not want you to be unaware of this mystery, brothers: a partial hardening has come upon Israel, until the fullness of the Gentiles has come in.
26 And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written,
“The Deliverer will come from Zion,
he will banish ungodliness from Jacob”
Posted on 11/4/23 at 11:36 am to Revelator
Ehhhh. You Evangelical Protestant types should be BBQ....slow roasted.
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