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re: Does the Holy Land belong to The Church?

Posted on 11/6/23 at 1:26 pm to
Posted by Mid Iowa Tiger
Undisclosed Secure Location
Member since Feb 2008
18841 posts
Posted on 11/6/23 at 1:26 pm to
quote:

All of these things you mentioned are in the scriptures, and I said I try to live by what’s in the scriptures.


The admonition to follow those traditions is in scripture, the identity of the actual tradition is not.

An example perhaps is infant baptism. There is nowhere in scripture where an infant is recorded as baptized. so "newer" protestant sects say it isn't valid. However, it was tradition as evidenced by some of Paul's, and other contemporary's writings.

quote:

What am I missing? We seem to be on the same page?


We may be, is you are saying it is ok to follow sacred traditions handed down from the earliest church, even those not explicitly recorded in the New Testament.
Posted by Mr. Misanthrope
Cloud 8
Member since Nov 2012
5576 posts
Posted on 11/6/23 at 11:10 pm to
quote:

A condition that will obviously be met.
Yes, obviously so, because Holy Scripture tells us this.
quote:

And in this way all Israel will be saved, as it is written
quote:

Now how can anyone claim that Jeremiah is talking about some Gentiles who believed, and somehow became the new jews? The Bible clearly says they are direct decedents of the Jews brought out of Egypt.
The Bible clearly does say this.
Taking the passage quoted and your closing paragraph as the bookends and linchpin of your argument, two questions pertain

1. The question of conditional aspects of Israel’s salvation. Why would Paul make the assertions you quoted and yet say this in the same epistle?
quote:

And even they (Israel), if they do not continue in their unbelief, will be grafted in, for God has the power to graft them in again.

and this:
quote:

13 Now I am speaking to you Gentiles. Inasmuch then as I am an apostle to the Gentiles, I magnify my ministry 14 in order somehow to make my fellow Jews jealous, and thus save some of them.


2. Who is Israel? In Paul’s epistle to the Romans he says this:
quote:

But it is not as though the word of God has failed. For not all who are descended from Israel belong to Israel, 7 and not all are children of Abraham because they are his offspring, but “Through Isaac shall your offspring be named.” 8 This means that it is not the children of the flesh who are the children of God, but the children of the promise are counted as offspring.

Now Paul’s position is that Israel is all Jewish believers and all Gentile believers having been made one man out of two by Jesus’s Crucifixion and Resurrection which broke down the barriers that separated Jew from Gentile and both from God.
quote:

11 Therefore remember that at one time you Gentiles in the flesh, called “the uncircumcision” by what is called the circumcision, which is made in the flesh by hands— 12 remember that you were at that time separated from Christ, alienated from the commonwealth of Israel and strangers to the covenants of promise, having no hope and without God in the world. 13 But now in Christ Jesus you who once were far off have been brought near by the blood of Christ. 14 For he himself is our peace, who has made us both one and has broken down in his flesh the dividing wall of hostility 15 by abolishing the law of commandments expressed in ordinances, that he might create in himself one new man in place of the two, so making peace, 16 and might reconcile us both to God in one body through the cross, thereby killing the hostility.


Posted by ForeverEllisHugh
Baton Rouge
Member since Aug 2016
14920 posts
Posted on 11/7/23 at 2:07 am to
quote:

They are typically the most far left people who hate America, Christians and the west. Hence why I could give a frick about Israel.


This. It’s asinine to think they’re somehow special just by virtue of some birthright.

Bottom line is we have no business supporting either side. America First.
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