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re: DNA analysis shows that Jews and Arabs Descended from Canaanites
Posted on 5/30/25 at 2:29 pm to FooManChoo
Posted on 5/30/25 at 2:29 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
For example, the principle of uniformitarianism is at the heart of the scientific method, however what if there were supernatural acts by God in the past that violated this principle?
To me, the realms of scientific evidence point to the fact that it could only have been a supernatural event, which of course is what Genesis tells us.
We have no model for how a universe could be spoke into existence (lets ignore the fringes of string theory).
The Big Bang is passe, modern inflation theory requires already existing matter to work.
quote:
The conclusions may be very different than what is supposed.
Agreed, the process for a natural vs artificial sapphire is different, so using the model for the millions of years to form a natural sapphire from corundum, does not work when looking at a sapphire created through the Czochralski method which can create up to 4 inches of crystal per hour.
Where I do have a question with it though is why would he?
We aren't just taking about sapphires, but of Neanderthal and Homo Sapience DNA humans, and even proto-cities such as Eridu, Jericho and Çatalhöyük are all dated in that time period.
This post was edited on 5/30/25 at 2:34 pm
Posted on 5/30/25 at 4:04 pm to somethingdifferent
You're still pretending like you're not getting it.
You want people to do the work to find out who your "source criticism circles" are, but you're not willing to do the work to find out who Mojeaux's "most scholars" are.
This can only be intentional on your part. And it makes you come off looking terribly insincere - like you're trying to dodge something.
You want people to do the work to find out who your "source criticism circles" are, but you're not willing to do the work to find out who Mojeaux's "most scholars" are.
This can only be intentional on your part. And it makes you come off looking terribly insincere - like you're trying to dodge something.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 4:30 pm to FriendofBaruch
quote:
531 years and you barely have the first mud hut
You know if you started with just 3 couples and each couple had 8 kids every generation and each generation was about 30 years you’d end up with over 100 billion people after 531 years.
Obviously that’s just the math. It doesn’t take into account early deaths or how hard it would be to keep up that kind of birth rate. I’m not saying that many people actually existed. But hitting a few million is totally reasonable. And if you’ve got a few million people I think you’re past the first mud hut.
If you run the same numbers over just 101 years you only get a little under 400 people. That’s why I said what I said earlier.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 5:13 pm to cssamerican
quote:
It doesn’t take into account early deaths or how hard it would be to keep up that kind of birth rate
..or to gain and spread that king of technology to impart to others.
..or to get past the birth defects of the genetic damage that would start appearing in just a couple of generations and expand until a populace outgrew it
A lot of things would stunt populace growth at a lot of junctions and a lot of crucial development points. including sheer luck and freedom from disastrous inputs
interesting exercise I think that even posing such a question puts you into unforeseen mistakes on an overwhelming scale.
This post was edited on 5/30/25 at 5:33 pm
Posted on 5/30/25 at 5:39 pm to FooManChoo
quote:OEC are not basing their biblical interpretation on outside factors. That's a YEC strawman. And the clear meaning has nothing to do with the length of yom. Nothing.
There most certainly is reinterpretation when the clear meaning of the text is being challenged and changed due to factors outside of the text.
quote:It's the rest of scripture that informs us of the semantic range of yom and the point of the creation story.
based on how the word is used in the rest of Scripture
quote:We do this every minute of every day. Context helps but it takes conversation in order to ferret out what someone means. Ancient biblical audiences would have been no different. There's no way you aren't aware of this. We have constant misunderstandings with each other. Have you read John 3:3-4? And even if Jesus' audience understood it as a 24 hour period, that doesn't mean that God intended the meaning to always be locked in to that forever. I can say that because the word has flexibility. If God intended something other than that, he could have chosen a different word that would have provided the specificity that you require.
The word "day" is used over 2,000 times and it couldn't have always been up for interpretation each time it's used
quote:We know that there are multiple possibilities and that should be good enough for anyone who understands the intent of the passage.
we can't really know what the word meant in Genesis 1
quote:But you are intentionally missing the whole point of the passage which has NOTHING to do with the length of yom. Absolutely nothing. If they understood it to mean day, that's ok because they were relying on their contemporaneous phenomenological understanding. That's the beauty of the flexibility of the word - it allows for our inevitable progression (provided by God BTW) and it's sad that you aren't allowing for the possibility that it was God's design all along.
I am attempting to be faithful to basic grammatical construction by using the rest of the words in the passages to understand the meaning of the text
quote:OEC does not injure the reliability of scripture, not one bit.
otherwise we cannot have confidence that we can know what God means anywhere
quote:i have said repeatedly that you are missing the theological point of the creation story and it has absolutely nothing to do with the length of yom. It is about God's providence, omnipotence and desire for a relationship with us. There's no way you can deny that. You are eisegetically shoehorning yom into the theological meaning. How does the length of yom change our praxis? None. We are to worship God and creation is no less of a miracle either way. We still have to accept Jesus as lord and savior. We still have to evangelize. None of that changes in the slightest. Adding an extra layer of science is completely superfluous to the theological purpose.
Please explain why my argument is wrong
quote:Grammar is not the point of the story and that's why YEC presumption of "clear" needs to be amended
If a clear grammatical interpretation can be discarded
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:01 pm to FooManChoo
quote:You said there are theological ramifications for the age of the earth. That is the worst assertion you have made and sounds almost cult-ish
Please explain how what I said is blatantly unbiblical
quote:Not one bit. Grammar is not the point of the story and there isn't only one grammatical understanding anyway. You know full well that misinterpretation would cause noticeable praxis issues (like prosperity people) and I would invite you to show how OEC has corrupted adherents to the point that they have stopped worshipping, praying, evangelizing, ministering, serving, faith leading to works, etc.
It puts the text of Scripture into doubt
quote:I have never said that. You are misrepresenting OEC. There is no reason to dogmatically insist on one particular interpretation when it doesn't affect soteriology, praxis, etc.
you are making the case that we really can't know what the word "day" means
quote:Fortunately, OEC does not do that and I invite you to show me how collective OEC adherents were heretical because of OEC instead of just doomcasting this onto some of the greatest Christian thinkers of modern times
An inconsistent interpretative hermeneutic results in heresy all the time
quote:None of this dictates a 24 hour period. There's no reason why those words can't be metaphorical like many, many parts of the Bible that you accept.
"Morning" and "evening" are used as boundaries for whatever length the day is, and the number "1st, 2nd, 3rd, etc." explains the divisions between those lengths of time.
quote:You mean other than my repeated citations of the theological intent of the passage? The actual meaning and purpose of the passage?
The only way you can explain the meaning of the word yom differently in Genesis 1 is to say that this chapter is entirely unique in the Bible, to which you need to provide support for it.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:02 pm to cssamerican
quote:That's a problem because biblical genealogies did not always include every generation
Yes
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:06 pm to Harry Boutte
quote:Mo doesn't have "most scholars." That's the problem. It's sleight of hand. He cited one author who, while having superb data, relied on a problematic methodology to reach a conclusion. Cough up the JEDP sources and then maybe there would be a conversation
you're not willing to do the work to find out who Mojeaux's "most scholars" are
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:30 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Mo doesn't have "most scholars." That's the problem.
That's not the problem. The problem is that you don't have "source criticism circles" either, but you're not willing to admit it.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:40 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
Mo doesn't have "most scholars." That's the problem. It's sleight of hand. He cited one author who, while having superb data, relied on a problematic methodology to reach a conclusion.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 6:54 pm to somethingdifferent
quote:
This comment always amuses me. Christians are supposed to be docile and timid. Not like Jesus overturning the tables or insulting people to their face
You are not Jesus.
You are the one in the front of the church proclaiming how righteous you are.
Wake up dawg.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 7:01 pm to SlowFlowPro
Christianity took alot from zoroastrianism.
Posted on 5/30/25 at 7:25 pm to RollTide4Ever
quote:
Christianity took alot from zoroastrianism.
So did Judaism according to some, but there are some in this thread who will pile on if you propose that.
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:25 am to Harry Boutte
quote:It most certainly is a problem. Mo made a claim and has yet to back it up. I happen to know it won't happen because it's not there
That's not the problem
quote:Have either you or Mo bothered to do any research? No.
The problem is that you don't have "source criticism circles" either
Fine. Because you are whining like a baby, I will start to do research that neither you nor Mo appear to be willing to do. Let's start with the works of:
Sayce
Keil
Delitzsch
Cassuto
Harrison
Archer
Kikawada
Quinn
Wenham
Who have all opposed Wellhausen
The Albright school felt that there might have been a minority amount of development and stressed the unity of the cultural history based on archaeology
Eissfeldt, Schmid, Kaufmann, and Friedman did not fully agree with Wellhausen
Propp maintains that even advocates of Wellhausen disagree on the supposed JEDP sources
Whybray relegates the DH as less likely than the fragmentary hypothesis and the supplementary hypothesis
W. H. Green, O.T. Allis, E. J. Young, G. C. Aalders all maintained Mosaic authorship, not JEDP
Gunkel famously argued for sitz im leben over and against the speculative DH's sources
That's a relatively decent summary. You should have been able to do that yourself. I suspect you didn't because you're not scholar and you're just flailing about in an unscholarly fashion. People just throw amateurish ideas out there and then start crying if someone objects
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:30 am to UtahCajun
quote:When did this happen?
You are the one in the front of the church proclaiming how righteous you are
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:31 am to RollTide4Ever
quote:My word the things people believe
Christianity took alot from zoroastrianism
Like what?
Posted on 5/31/25 at 1:44 am to Mo Jeaux
quote:Do you know ANYTHING about NT Wright? He might be the world's preeminent theologian. The bibliography to that book is 27 pages in the paperback version. His subsequent Christian origins books are even longer.
a non-academic book
He is probably the most "academic" of all academics.
quote:And this is yet another comment that you don't know what you are talking about. The citation was about the documentary hypothesis, which is the methodology Smith employed. That idea has been around for decades so it doesn't matter that NT Wright's book was written prior. How about you go read that chapter and explain where Wright is incorrect.
written ten years before the one that I cited
quote:Tell me what I said that's wrong. Show me the JEDP sources. If you can't, which I know you can't because they don't exist, then Smith's argument falls apart. And that's the ONLY citation you have made to support the silly idea that Judeo-Christianity "borrowed" from prior Canaanite religion
get off your high horse in this thread.
Posted on 5/31/25 at 2:06 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
You should have been able to do that yourself.
Of course I could have, I said I could have ( here). You could have for Mojeaux's claim as well. For all the writing you do, you have remarkably little capacity for understanding other people. It's unbelievable that you still don't get the point.
quote:
you are whining
I'm actually trying to help you understand why people have problems with you, but you don't seem to want to understand. You're too caught up in your own head.
I said it before, and I'll say it again; It's people like you who drive me away from scripture. If Heaven is full of people like you, I don't want any part of it.
Good luck in your future endeavors.
Posted on 5/31/25 at 6:28 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
When did this happen?
So you do not read what you post....
Posted on 5/31/25 at 6:36 am to somethingdifferent
quote:
And that's the ONLY citation you have made to support the silly idea that Judeo-Christianity "borrowed" from prior Canaanite religion
I’m deliberately ignoring the rest of your douchey spittle, but here again, you’re mischaracterizing the argument. You can’t get out of your own way. You’re such a twat.
It’s weird that the prior Canaanite religion, which had no relationship whatsoever to the Israelites, happened to worship Yahweh too though. Isn’t that odd? Lucky guess on their part.
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