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re: “Diversity is our strength” - biggest lie ever told

Posted on 3/17/24 at 1:46 am to
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10342 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 1:46 am to
quote:

diversity is a huge strength of this country.


The problem with this thread is that no one is defining "diversity."

You're defining it in your post as race (and to a lesser extend gender), and some other posters are as well.

I think the vast majority (even here) would agree that diversity of race is a non-factor. It's not important at all.

Even diversity of culture can work. The problem is when you have no shared culture and no shared values. You can differ on points A-B-C as long as you agree on X-Y-Z.

Our problem is that we've sold lots and lots of people on the idea that they need not conform to any aspect of mainstream culture anymore—that instead, mainstream culture needs to accomodate them, because "diversity."

(BTW, that's another problem with your post...you're mix the present and past tense, ignoring that our treatment of diversity of culture has changed over time.)

That's why first generation Korean and Chinese immigrants name their children Ann and Joe. They want them to fit in and they are willing to forgo their traditional heritage to make that happen.

Whereas black people who have lived in America for many generations name their children Toprameneesha and Quindavious (both actual names). They are demanding the right to resist mainstream culture and are, in fact, demanding that mainstream culture accomodate them.

Because Toprameneesha will definitely be the first to cry racism when her job application doesn't get selected for an interview (which it won't, research is clear on that).

Any time you see black people complain about someone "acting white" or express resentment over being asked to "act white," same thing.

This resistance of mainstream culture among that population is a recent phenomenon. Think about the notable figures throughout history: George Washington Carver, George Robert Carruthers, Hariett Tubman, Lewis Howard Latimere, Fredrick Douglas, Martin Luther King, Rosa Parks, Jessie Owens, James McCune Smith, etc., etc., etc. None of them were named Jondovious or Keeraesha (again, actual names).

That all came about as a result of the Black Muslims telling black people to ditch their "slave names" and resist mainstream American culture in the 60s.

The problem with that is that that movement was a (self-avowed) separatist movement, but the population it was aimed at never separated. Malcolm X literally preached that black people in America should leave and form their own country. Of course, he also preached that black people should adopt a set of values that held them to an even higher moral standard than mainstream America. The fact that they did neither of those things makes the whole resisting mainstream culture part obsolete and self-destructive.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:14 am to
quote:

Whereas black people who have lived in America for many generations name their children Toprameneesha and Quindavious


It’s because they’re really poor and they feel that their children have no no social value in the hierarchy. So they give them names that make them “special.” You see the same thing with poor white people too, although it’s not as as bad.

I’m not black, but I don’t think it’s about resisting mainline culture (I mean look at how toxic normal American culture is now) it’s because their social institutions collapsed. And they lost the ability to enforce healthy social norms.

quote:

Even diversity of culture can work



If you share the same culture with someone you can fairly reliably predict their behavior, because you understand the rules that govern them. And if you don’t understand the unspoken rules that your neighbors live by, then you’re going to put up walls and bunker down, which is what Putnam found.

We don’t really do well with any kind of cultural diversity. We evolved to live in small homogenous tribes.
This post was edited on 3/17/24 at 11:32 am
Posted by TN Tygah
Member since Nov 2023
7837 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:28 am to
Diversity the way the Dems see it is not our strength. They see value in other skin colors and cultures keeping their traditions and values intact and we should all just embrace it blindly and stay out of the way. That’s how culture wars start, conflicting values and very little actual common ground. It didn’t work with Native Americans which is why they savagely terrorized tribes with opposing values and traditions before the evil white man came and beat them at their own game.

Diversity of ideas CAN be a strength especially if they’re not all dumb ideas. It is good to have people on your team who think differently and have a different perspective. Unfortunately the Democrats do not see it that way.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112249 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:28 am to
Yes, and no.

Diversity can be strengthening so long as the "contributions" of the "diverse" are willingly integrated into the already existing cultural framework. When it is forced (diversity solely for diversity's sake) it weakens (and can ultimately destroy) that culture.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:30 am to
quote:

Diversity can be strengthening so long as the "contributions" of the "diverse" are willingly integrated into the already existing cultural framework.


I understand the emotional point, but I’ve never seen anyone make a factual argument to prove it

Putnams research showed that it was just a negative. No upside.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112249 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:33 am to
quote:

understand the emotional point, but I’ve never seen anyone make a factual argument to prove it

Putnams research showed that it was just a negative. No upside


I would submit the USA through the 1950s is proof.

The cultural contributions of all the ethnic groups to that point had been integrated into the American culture (blacks, Italians, Irish, Germans, etc.). It was only when cultural Marxists started fighting against assimilation of immigrants and forced cultural changes (as opposed to natural evolution) that "diversity" became a net negative.
This post was edited on 3/17/24 at 11:34 am
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:38 am to
quote:

I would submit the USA through the 1950s is proof.


America was very homogenous then. People lived in communities with people almost exactly like them. And this was true even on the regional level, whole swaths of the country were English or German. We of course had Irish and Italian populations, to pick two, but they lived in ethnic enclaves where they took care of each other. And our ruling class had roots going back to the earliest settlers.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
53566 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:47 am to
quote:

Because in that same speech he called me and half the country extremist racist threats to the country.


I mean y’all did try to attack our seat of government
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112249 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 11:49 am to
quote:

quote:
Because in that same speech he called me and half the country extremist racist threats to the country.


I mean y’all did try to attack our seat of government


You're an idiot.
Posted by chalmetteowl
Chalmette
Member since Jan 2008
53566 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 12:53 pm to
Why thanks

But I’m not the one melting over what Biden said when he said the truth
Posted by NC_Tigah
Make Orwell Fiction Again
Member since Sep 2003
135378 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 1:00 pm to
quote:

“Diversity is our strength”
Diversity is a strength as long as the effort is toward American cohesion rather than division.
Posted by udtiger
Over your left shoulder
Member since Nov 2006
112249 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 1:38 pm to
quote:

Why thanks

But I’m not the one melting over what Biden said when he said the truth


If those people truly wished to "attack the seat of power," they would have come armed, and they would have succeeded.
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10342 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 8:37 pm to
quote:

It’s because they’re really poor and they feel that their children have no no social value in the hierarchy. So they give them names that make them “special.”


Except that it's not just poor black people who give their children names like that.

quote:

I’m not black, but I don’t think it’s about resisting mainline culture


We'll have to agree to disagree. I cited historical and (although anecdotal, fairly common, I think) evidence to support my viewpoint. What is informing your opposite opinion?

quote:

If you share the same culture with someone you can fairly reliably predict their behavior, because you understand the rules that govern them.


Which is why I said cultural diversity CAN work, IF you still share some common values.
Posted by wackatimesthree
Member since Oct 2019
10342 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 8:38 pm to
quote:


I mean y’all did try to attack our seat of government


By taking selfies?

I know the country has gone mighty soft, but damn...
Posted by grizzlylongcut
Member since Sep 2021
14276 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:07 pm to
Look at the Romans
Posted by Mad Dog Droopy
Member since Mar 2024
61 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:08 pm to
Diversity is a weakness.

Unity is a strength.
Posted by Trevaylin
south texas
Member since Feb 2019
9580 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:17 pm to
in the 1985 period, team work was the desired work enviorment, with a well structured engagement to use input from all persons involved in the work process. Tecniques were taught to bring out the shy contributors and reign in the overbearing. Lots of work process mapping to identify redundancies. Who your mother was or standing to pee was never an issue.

Diversity is the exact opposite of team work. There is no coherent implementation process, it is all focused on people identities. Every company that accepts diversity as key aspiration is destined to become less competitive and on the road to bankruptcy.

Government jobs have no competitive output and are allowed to incorporate meaningless baggage.
Posted by SlidellCajun
Slidell la
Member since May 2019
15906 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:22 pm to
When you fly on a plane, is it more important that they hire the most qualified pilots or the most diverse ?

Diversity programs are a race to the bottom. It only benefits the less qualified. It does nothing for productivity.
Posted by alumiknotty
Member since Jan 2023
129 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:24 pm to
quote:

I mean y’all did try to attack our seat of government


When did this happen? I think I would have heard about half the country attacking the seat of government.
Posted by Lima Whiskey
Member since Apr 2013
22594 posts
Posted on 3/17/24 at 9:25 pm to
quote:

Except that it's not just poor black people who give their children names like that.


My next sentence was

quote:

You see the same thing with poor white people too, although it’s not as as bad.


quote:

Which is why I said cultural diversity CAN work, IF you still share some common values.


Trust decays the further two populations are from each other culturally. By that logic, the most ideal scenario is no diversity. And diversity should generally be minimized.
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