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Posted on 10/12/20 at 5:13 am to Wolfhound45
Agree. This is pretty open an shut. Particularly when you see the video and the victim was backing up when he was shot. By the time the murderer shoots, the victim has backed up far enough that the mace wasn’t even effective from the distance it was deployed at. You can’t shoot and kill someone backing up from you with no lethal weapon. That’s a nonstarter. And the look on the murderers face right after say is it all. That’s the biggest tell for me. That was the look of a man that knows his life outside of a prison is over. Over stupid politics.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:44 am to nerd guy
quote:
You can't shoot someone in the head for spraying mace at you
Is this opinion or fact?
Here is the Colorado law on the use of force:
quote:
(2) Deadly physical force may be used only if a person reasonably believes a lesser degree of force is inadequate and:
The shooter is in prison charged with murder.
You decide. Did the shooter reasonably consider all nonleathal actions before shooting someone in the head?
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:47 am to Tiguar
quote:What fraction of a second qualifies as “well after?”
He shot well after the pepper spray.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:50 am to AggieHank86
The murderer was drawing his weapons so early that I would actually argue the victim was using pepper spray in defense of perceiving the guy to be drawing a weapon
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 6:50 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:52 am to AggieHank86
Up and at it pretty early, I see. You’re just as fixated on this one, as I am. 
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 6:52 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:56 am to AggieHank86
quote:
What fraction of a second qualifies as “well after?”
The fraction that it takes to put a bullet in one's head. You have been rather obtuse during this whole conversation. Do you really think any court in this land is going to say that a can of mace is a lethal weapon used with the intent of bodily harm that could lead to death, so therefore a person has the right to pull a firearm and shoot you? I'd like to see cops use that reasoning for shooting rioters if that is the case.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:56 am to Tiguar
TRIGGER WARNING: Scary Postulation & Extrapolation Ahead (Context Clues again)
Bubba is walking away from loud, profane confrontation with BLM loudmouth. Bubba is pissed.
Dolloff and reporter approach pissed-off Bubba for comment, and Dolloff non-aggressively reaches out to touch Bubba. Bubba in ocently misinterprets Dolloff’s actions as a continuation of the BLM confrontation and slaps the shite out of Dolloff.
Dolloff mistakenly thinks that he and his charge may be in danger and unholsters his weapon, preparatory to potentially defending himself and his charge but with no intent of discharging his weapon without further provocation.
Bubba sees the handgun and erroneously thinks Dolloff is about to shoot him. Bubba responds by gassing Dolloff in hopes of not getting shot.
Dolloff perceives the gassing as an offensive attack rather than a defensive move and responds by discharging his weapon at Bubba.
In short, a series of unfortunate occurrences in which each player thought HE was in danger and no one INTENDED the final result.
//end SCARY HYPOTHESIS //
Bubba is walking away from loud, profane confrontation with BLM loudmouth. Bubba is pissed.
Dolloff and reporter approach pissed-off Bubba for comment, and Dolloff non-aggressively reaches out to touch Bubba. Bubba in ocently misinterprets Dolloff’s actions as a continuation of the BLM confrontation and slaps the shite out of Dolloff.
Dolloff mistakenly thinks that he and his charge may be in danger and unholsters his weapon, preparatory to potentially defending himself and his charge but with no intent of discharging his weapon without further provocation.
Bubba sees the handgun and erroneously thinks Dolloff is about to shoot him. Bubba responds by gassing Dolloff in hopes of not getting shot.
Dolloff perceives the gassing as an offensive attack rather than a defensive move and responds by discharging his weapon at Bubba.
In short, a series of unfortunate occurrences in which each player thought HE was in danger and no one INTENDED the final result.
//end SCARY HYPOTHESIS //
Posted on 10/12/20 at 6:58 am to AggieHank86
So is a fraction of a second enough to react to pepper spray or not? Your previous post asserted it was too fast.
Also, even if your scenario is true (it isn’t), that’s murder one. Inappropriate escalation straight to lethal force on a backing up target proves malice.
Also, even if your scenario is true (it isn’t), that’s murder one. Inappropriate escalation straight to lethal force on a backing up target proves malice.
This post was edited on 10/12/20 at 7:03 am
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:00 am to AggieHank86
quote:
In short, a series of unfortunate occurrences in which each player thought HE was in danger and no one INTENDED the final result.
Really just sounds like your usual, made up, non-contributing to the board BS...
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:03 am to AggieHank86
I guess the shooter could argue that since he had already been slapped by the victim, the victim could have then been using the spray to incapacitate him in order to inflict more harm, so he felt he had no choice but to draw and shoot. If I were his lawyer that's the angle I would probably argue.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:05 am to AggieHank86
Aggie, I generally agree the shooter regrets what has occurred. But you have a great responsibility when you decide to carry and fire a weapon. You better be damn sure. There is plenty of video. We’ll generally know what occurred. He may be able to avoid 1st and 2nd degree murder but he’ll be in jail for a long time.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:06 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Bubba is walking away from loud, profane confrontation with BLM loudmouth. Bubba is pissed.
The name of the victim was Lee Keltner asshat.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:10 am to Diseasefreeforall
quote:
I guess the shooter could argue that since he had already been slapped by the victim,
But Hank said this - Dolloff non-aggressively reaches out to touch Bubba. First off, Hank is making an assumption here about the non-aggressiveness. No way in hell he knows that. Second, as Hank also said again, there was a heated verbal altercation just prior to the shooting but he thinks the victim overreacted to a non-aggressive touch.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:10 am to Toomer Deplorable
quote:Has he now been positively identified? That was not the case when last I checked yesterday. Thanks, asshat..
The name of the victim was Lee Keltner asshat.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:12 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:Just providing one interpretation of still-ambiguous data. No different from any of you, except that it is not colored by preconceptions and bias.
Homesick Tiger
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:14 am to AggieHank86
quote:
Has he now been positively identified?
My original post was 5:50 pm yesterday with a positive id of the victim and we're seven pages in and you make this statement.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:16 am to Homesick Tiger
Hank is always low on facts, high in conjecture
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:23 am to Homesick Tiger
quote:I sleep, and I have a life.
My original post was 5:50 pm yesterday with a positive id of the victim and we're seven pages in and you make this statement.
Posted on 10/12/20 at 7:26 am to AggieHank86
Sorry. There is not enough time for this hypothesis anymore. Dolloff reaches for the mace almost as soon as the victim disengages from the first confrontation and turns toward the assailant. Victim resists Dolloff by slapping him. Dolloff immediately transitions to deadly force by reaching for his weapon while the victim still has his arms at his side. He has already made his decision on escalation at that point. Dolloff raises his weapon and fires as the victim sprays an ineffective burst of mace.
Not a good shoot. No way around it.
Not a good shoot. No way around it.
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