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Posted on 9/17/26 at 12:55 am to 3down10
quote:
3down10
That is a great wall of bullshite to try to convince us to accept that a lot of Muslims support terrorists.
Are you British?
Posted on 9/17/26 at 12:56 am to davyjones
quote:
I’m left with more questions than answers after that post.
I look at things from both sides.
I don't find the way they act to be irrational at all. I think we'd all react the same way.
Imagine if Russia was over putting up bases all around us. They install a brutal dictator who is friendly to them and gives our natural resources to Russia.
Would you support people rebelling against the government? Would people maybe go crazy in the Russian embassy?
But I'm supposed to pretend like it happened for no reason, and I don't do that.
If Russia then talked Mexico into starting a war with us, and gave them chemical and other WMD to be used against us. And then after 8 years it ends with no real change, but many dead people. Is that going to make you like Russia?
And then if Russia killed our president, even someone crappy like Biden and demanded you elect someone who meets their approval, would you want to surrender to Russia? Or would you embrace those who want to fight Russia the most?
And if they attacked our military and took it out, and then threatened to take out our power plants and infrastructure that would result in millions of Americans dying, would you then praise and want to surrender to Russia?
Or you would scream Death to Russia from the top your lungs and do everything in your power to attack Russia and try to remove them from your borders and the general area?
And yeah I bet Russia would use your anger and desperate attacks as propaganda to tell the Russian citizens they hate you and they want to kill you.
I'm not even happy with the foreign influence we have in our own government already, not to mention all this other shite. Cozying up to Russia wouldn't be on my list at all, I will want to elect the ones who look like they will do the most.
I firmly believe we shouldn't allow them here, but only because they do not and will not assimilate. The end up bringing in large amounts of them and our leaders are fricking us over, and they fricked over Europe.
But I'm not going to pretend like they hate us for bullshite reasons. They are pretty well justified in reality.
We should bring our troops home, then remove the illegal immigrants and other such immigrants who have no interest in assimilating. You'll never see another attack on the US from them after.
This post was edited on 9/17/26 at 12:58 am
Posted on 9/17/26 at 12:59 am to RohanGonzales
quote:
That is a great wall of bullshite to try to convince us to accept that a lot of Muslims support terrorists.
Are you British?
I'm sure if they had a military that could just drop bombs on you all day they'd use that.
Is that somehow better?
During the revolutionary war, the British didn't like our guerilla warfare tactics either. But it worked when greatly outnumbered.
This post was edited on 9/17/26 at 1:02 am
Posted on 9/17/26 at 1:36 am to 3down10
My gosh, this post is ate up with complete gibberish.
Who have I murdered? When did the government carry out my sins? I have already addressed this, and yet you repeat the same lies. I don't "claim" they want to kill us. THEY outright declare their intention to carry out the killing of all non-Muslims, but especially Christians and Jews.
No different than the pharisees? They killed the Messiah, because they didn't believe and were ate up with pride, and angered that Jesus called them out on all of their hypocrisy. Going to war against Muslim terrorists for carrying out senseless attacks on civilians is justified. There is no comparison.
Of course it is a right for all. But those Muslims aren't acting in self defense. They are always the aggressor.
This is incoherent. You are still being obtuse over that point that I made. I didn't say that you called them cowards, I simply posed a question to you, based on your own logic. If "fear" of being overthrown by an enemy is seen as a negative in your eyes, then logically, you are implying that anyone who acts on that "fear" is a coward. So I asked you a very simple question: Are our soldiers cowards? Are we cowards for every war we've fought in? Or is it only cowardice if it involves killing people of a specific religion?
You keep saying I'm "afraid" because I want to defend my country and my family. You can't male up your mind. you say that self-defense is a God given right, but then you immediately flip and say that a person who wants to defend himself is just afraid and wants to sacrifice lives. Did you ever read the Old Testament? There's a lot of commanded killing in there. Would you like to argue with God over those killings?
And you last point in that paragraph doesn't even make sense. It's just random words thrown together with no truth.
This is wrong on so many levels. That you are naive enough to believe that "Only your own government" can take our freedom, you know nothing about world history.
Why do you keep talking about this war? This conversation was about a proposed modern day crusade. The war isn't a crusade. It is a response to multiple actions by our enemies. First was the attack on October 7th. That's the Israel-Hamas side of the wars in the Middle East. Then, Iran was warned to shut down operations on it's nuclear weapons production. They were given 60 days. 60 days went by, Iran did not comply, and bombing ensued. Then the Iranian regime killed thousands of civilian protesters, which brought further action on our part.
A crusade would be an all-out pursuit by Christians, specifically, against these tyrannical Muslims. It's something I don't believe will ever happen, but that was the hypothetical, and you keep talking about the war, of which, you don't even have your facts straight. You have liberal/Muslim talking points that you spit out with no effort to back any of it with data.
As for having troops in their "holy lands", there is nothing holy about Islam. We don't owe them respect because they call something holy. Their religion is evil, and their repeated acts of terror or why our troops are there. We didn't invade a peaceful people.
Who is this US puppet you speak of, and where is the evidence that he was acting on our behalf? They didn't rebel against a puppet, they rebelled against the terrorist regime who runs that country, not the pseudo government that is entirely toothless. So there you go again, not knowing your facts.
Most of this is once again incoherent. But the part about judging "extremists" is a tired leftist tactic. Have you ever read any part of the Quran? The terrorists aren't the "extremists", they are the true followers of the false prophet Muhammad. Everything they do is commanded in their "holy" scriptures. And they are not in the minority. They are not the entirety of all Muslims, but they are certainly the majority. They hate us, they hate western culture, and they want us dead, and have murdered countless Christians where they are. And make no mistake, this infiltration into our government has and end game where they do in this country what they have done for centuries in their native lands.
I don't care if you don't believe that, or claim that you "aren't afraid". What you are is ignorant and passive, which is not courage. It's easy not to fear what you are too blind to see coming. I don't fear in any sort of way that disrupts my daily life. That kind of fear, the fear that controls, is cowardice. Healthy fear is not cowardice. You don't walk out into traffic because you know certain awaits. It's common sense. And when danger lurks from abroad, likewise, we should have the foresight to recognize it and act accordingly, if and when it becomes necessary.
quote:
"killed in war"
Yeah, you use the government to carry out your sins because you think it means you didn't do it.
You murder them. Using the government to carry out your sins is no different than how the pharisees killed Jesus.
You want to kill them because you claim they want to kill you.
But you are the one that is supporting the "war" over there to kill them.
How are you different? Because you have a government to kill for you?
Who have I murdered? When did the government carry out my sins? I have already addressed this, and yet you repeat the same lies. I don't "claim" they want to kill us. THEY outright declare their intention to carry out the killing of all non-Muslims, but especially Christians and Jews.
No different than the pharisees? They killed the Messiah, because they didn't believe and were ate up with pride, and angered that Jesus called them out on all of their hypocrisy. Going to war against Muslim terrorists for carrying out senseless attacks on civilians is justified. There is no comparison.
quote:
Self defense is a God given right.
And that includes them no matter if you like it or not.
Of course it is a right for all. But those Muslims aren't acting in self defense. They are always the aggressor.
quote:
I served, I said nothing of people in military being cowards, nor did I remotely suggest it. You are the one with the fear who wants to sacrifice their lives and the resources of your fellow citizens.
Those countries ignorantly invited them because they have shitty leadership. Not because they didn't go to the middle east and kill them first.
This is incoherent. You are still being obtuse over that point that I made. I didn't say that you called them cowards, I simply posed a question to you, based on your own logic. If "fear" of being overthrown by an enemy is seen as a negative in your eyes, then logically, you are implying that anyone who acts on that "fear" is a coward. So I asked you a very simple question: Are our soldiers cowards? Are we cowards for every war we've fought in? Or is it only cowardice if it involves killing people of a specific religion?
You keep saying I'm "afraid" because I want to defend my country and my family. You can't male up your mind. you say that self-defense is a God given right, but then you immediately flip and say that a person who wants to defend himself is just afraid and wants to sacrifice lives. Did you ever read the Old Testament? There's a lot of commanded killing in there. Would you like to argue with God over those killings?
And you last point in that paragraph doesn't even make sense. It's just random words thrown together with no truth.
quote:
The only ones that can take your freedoms are your own government. Which they do often and are working full time to take more.
Among the reasons they cite for attacking, religion and culture is not among them. Having troops in their holy lands, bases in the middle east, attacking their countries - those are the actual reasons.
They had a US puppet before. He was a brutal dictator who imprisoned and killed his opponents and so forth. That was the reason they rebeled. If we were over there for "freedom" that wouldn't have happened. We are over there for the petro dollar and that Iran will sell it's oil in Yuan, which is bad for the western banking cartel. It gets support because of people like you.
This is wrong on so many levels. That you are naive enough to believe that "Only your own government" can take our freedom, you know nothing about world history.
Why do you keep talking about this war? This conversation was about a proposed modern day crusade. The war isn't a crusade. It is a response to multiple actions by our enemies. First was the attack on October 7th. That's the Israel-Hamas side of the wars in the Middle East. Then, Iran was warned to shut down operations on it's nuclear weapons production. They were given 60 days. 60 days went by, Iran did not comply, and bombing ensued. Then the Iranian regime killed thousands of civilian protesters, which brought further action on our part.
A crusade would be an all-out pursuit by Christians, specifically, against these tyrannical Muslims. It's something I don't believe will ever happen, but that was the hypothetical, and you keep talking about the war, of which, you don't even have your facts straight. You have liberal/Muslim talking points that you spit out with no effort to back any of it with data.
As for having troops in their "holy lands", there is nothing holy about Islam. We don't owe them respect because they call something holy. Their religion is evil, and their repeated acts of terror or why our troops are there. We didn't invade a peaceful people.
Who is this US puppet you speak of, and where is the evidence that he was acting on our behalf? They didn't rebel against a puppet, they rebelled against the terrorist regime who runs that country, not the pseudo government that is entirely toothless. So there you go again, not knowing your facts.
quote:
I'm sure most Christians are not like that. However at the same time most Muslims aren't like that either.
But you judge them on the extremists, then ask not to be judged on Christian extremists.
Do you kill your neighbor based on how they plant your crops even though it's in the bible?
You still use government to do it. You just don't put your name on it anymore. The reasons behind it aren't really changing though.
Most of this is once again incoherent. But the part about judging "extremists" is a tired leftist tactic. Have you ever read any part of the Quran? The terrorists aren't the "extremists", they are the true followers of the false prophet Muhammad. Everything they do is commanded in their "holy" scriptures. And they are not in the minority. They are not the entirety of all Muslims, but they are certainly the majority. They hate us, they hate western culture, and they want us dead, and have murdered countless Christians where they are. And make no mistake, this infiltration into our government has and end game where they do in this country what they have done for centuries in their native lands.
I don't care if you don't believe that, or claim that you "aren't afraid". What you are is ignorant and passive, which is not courage. It's easy not to fear what you are too blind to see coming. I don't fear in any sort of way that disrupts my daily life. That kind of fear, the fear that controls, is cowardice. Healthy fear is not cowardice. You don't walk out into traffic because you know certain awaits. It's common sense. And when danger lurks from abroad, likewise, we should have the foresight to recognize it and act accordingly, if and when it becomes necessary.
Posted on 9/17/26 at 2:43 am to Metaloctopus
quote:
Who have I murdered? When did the government carry out my sins? I have already addressed this, and yet you repeat the same lies. I don't "claim" they want to kill us. THEY outright declare their intention to carry out the killing of all non-Muslims, but especially Christians and Jews.
No different than the pharisees? They killed the Messiah, because they didn't believe and were ate up with pride, and angered that Jesus called them out on all of their hypocrisy. Going to war against Muslim terrorists for carrying out senseless attacks on civilians is justified. There is no comparison.
Not a single attack that has been carried out has had that reason behind it.
I told you the real reasons they attack us.
quote:
Of course it is a right for all. But those Muslims aren't acting in self defense. They are always the aggressor.
False. We are the aggressors, we are the one in the middle east that is on the other side of the globe. We are the ones that have military bases all in the region. We are the ones who have attacked multiple countries in the area.
quote:
This is incoherent. You are still being obtuse over that point that I made. I didn't say that you called them cowards, I simply posed a question to you, based on your own logic. If "fear" of being overthrown by an enemy is seen as a negative in your eyes, then logically, you are implying that anyone who acts on that "fear" is a coward. So I asked you a very simple question: Are our soldiers cowards? Are we cowards for every war we've fought in? Or is it only cowardice if it involves killing people of a specific religion?
You keep saying I'm "afraid" because I want to defend my country and my family. You can't male up your mind. you say that self-defense is a God given right, but then you immediately flip and say that a person who wants to defend himself is just afraid and wants to sacrifice lives. Did you ever read the Old Testament? There's a lot of commanded killing in there. Would you like to argue with God over those killings?
And you last point in that paragraph doesn't even make sense. It's just random words thrown together with no truth.
Ok, your irrational fear is what leads you to these things. Is that better?
You are not defending yourself, you are the one doing the attacking.
I'm not a Christian, Jew or Muslim, I don't subscribe to the idea that God did those things in the OT, that God promised someone land, or that God told Muslims to kill infidels, or that Jesus was merely a human/god sacrifice. You're all insane.
quote:
This is wrong on so many levels. That you are naive enough to believe that "Only your own government" can take our freedom, you know nothing about world history.
In the country where freedom and liberty was the founding principle, aka the United States, the only loss of rights in it's history has come at the hands of the government. Legally anyway.
quote:
Why do you keep talking about this war? This conversation was about a proposed modern day crusade. The war isn't a crusade. It is a response to multiple actions by our enemies. First was the attack on October 7th. That's the Israel-Hamas side of the wars in the Middle East. Then, Iran was warned to shut down operations on it's nuclear weapons production. They were given 60 days. 60 days went by, Iran did not comply, and bombing ensued. Then the Iranian regime killed thousands of civilian protesters, which brought further action on our part.
Speaking of history, it didn't' start on Oct 7. Not to mention Israel allowed it to happen. And it in no way justifies the genocide that followed.
Iran has a right to self defense. You are merely outlining the reasons why we infringed on their rights and killed their people. Because you believe you have a right to enforce your will on their government and people. Which is exactly what you accuse them of.
quote:
A crusade would be an all-out pursuit by Christians, specifically, against these tyrannical Muslims. It's something I don't believe will ever happen, but that was the hypothetical, and you keep talking about the war, of which, you don't even have your facts straight. You have liberal/Muslim talking points that you spit out with no effort to back any of it with data.
As for having troops in their "holy lands", there is nothing holy about Islam. We don't owe them respect because they call something holy. Their religion is evil, and their repeated acts of terror or why our troops are there. We didn't invade a peaceful people.
Yeah, you're a blood thirsty Christian as I said originally. You do not respect people of other cultures and feel it's your duty to declare them evil as justification for murdering them.
You are everything you claim they are.
quote:
Who is this US puppet you speak of, and where is the evidence that he was acting on our behalf? They didn't rebel against a puppet, they rebelled against the terrorist regime who runs that country, not the pseudo government that is entirely toothless. So there you go again, not knowing your facts.
Iran was a democracy until 1953 when the US/UK intelligence agencies overthrew their government and installed the Shah. He was a brutal dictator who maintained control over the country while allowing western companies to control their oil. He was overthrown in 1979 by the current regime. They will only get more and more extreme as long as we attack them, not less.
quote:
Most of this is once again incoherent. But the part about judging "extremists" is a tired leftist tactic. Have you ever read any part of the Quran? The terrorists aren't the "extremists", they are the true followers of the false prophet Muhammad. Everything they do is commanded in their "holy" scriptures. And they are not in the minority. They are not the entirety of all Muslims, but they are certainly the majority. They hate us, they hate western culture, and they want us dead, and have murdered countless Christians where they are. And make no mistake, this infiltration into our government has and end game where they do in this country what they have done for centuries in their native lands.
I don't care if you don't believe that, or claim that you "aren't afraid". What you are is ignorant and passive, which is not courage. It's easy not to fear what you are too blind to see coming. I don't fear in any sort of way that disrupts my daily life. That kind of fear, the fear that controls, is cowardice. Healthy fear is not cowardice. You don't walk out into traffic because you know certain awaits. It's common sense. And when danger lurks from abroad, likewise, we should have the foresight to recognize it and act accordingly, if and when it becomes necessary.
Yeah, this is all lies. Not a single time has any of that been cited as the reason for them attacking us.
But you'll use it as justification for you using the government to sin and murder millions of people.
Have you ever once considered looking at things from the other side to see how you would feel? You know, remove the beam from your own eye and all that?
Posted on 9/17/26 at 11:54 am to 3down10
quote:I believe it is. The Scriptures have been preserved over time and have the marks of divinity. It's not an experience that can be contradictory.
Because it's not God.
quote:How do you think the Spirit works? You think that He teaches all things to all randomly to random people based on their initial lucky guess that they should ask for it from Him, specifically? How will anyone know to do what you've said without the Spirit pursuing them first?
John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.
I see nothing about scripture. I see an actual event that is supposed to take place and I know it's real because I've experienced it.
In that verse, Jesus was speaking to His apostles, and then He did that as recorded in the book of Acts. The Bible is how we know who God is and what He has done and will do. The fact that you referenced the Bible to support your belief shows the necessity of it.
quote:Why don't you write down all the understanding that you do have and share it with others? Isn't that what the prophets, apostles, and the apostles' disciples did? That way, others can know the truth and know what to do to seek after it.
I would love to be able to give you understanding directly. I just can't do it in human form due to the limited we have in communication.
Nobody can do it, that's why there is only 1 true teacher and it's not me.
It seems you are contradicting yourself by sharing information that people will not know without already having the understanding you're talking about while saying you aren't a teacher and can't grant understanding, yourself. OK, so you can't grant understanding, but you are telling me things that you expect me to believe (such as asking God for this understanding), assuming that I have enough understanding to accept the teaching you are providing to at least get the ball rolling.
quote:What you've conceded here is that the same conclusion that Jesus reflects the Father can be ascertained by the existing Scriptures and that a new revelational experience is not needed to at least understand this truth intellectually.
I am able to see the father in Jesus based on his understanding. Knowledge of the holy is understanding and Jesus demonstrates the understanding.
Your version of that is "Jesus said it and Paul affirmed it".
quote:Got you. So you use the Bible when it's helpful to you, but you don't really care about it otherwise. You have your own religion or version of reality that only you've been given access to with no way to prove that it's true, other than to say, "trust me, I've seen God". Am I understanding that right?
Correct, I do not give a frick what the bible says. I only use it as a tool so that I can maybe communicate to you in a way you understand. I have seen the "Holy Ghost", but I can assure you it has no label as that. That label is what men put on it because we are limited in communication that way.
quote:I deny that it teaches anything false, since I believe it is God's word, testified by prophets and apostles who performed public miracles. I also deny that it "evolved". You'll need to support those claims.
You should be able to look at the bible and be able to tell what is true and what is false. Especially given how often it contradicts itself, and the history of how it evolved over time in the first few hundred years after BC.
quote:You've said this before, but it's nonsensical. You keep saying I don't know God and all I have to do is ask, but I've asked, and what I've received in response in the Bible. Either God gave me a false direction, or God hasn't answered me.
You need the book because you lack understanding and because you do not know God or any of the things talked about. In terms of math, you are the man who memorized 1+1=2, but lacks the understanding to recognize 1+2=4 is wrong, or that another expression in 2+1=3 is correct.
Plus, it's quite convenient for you to respond to every challenge with, "you just lack understanding". You need to do more than that. Humans are rational creatures, so you need to support your claim to truth in some way.
quote:You haven't supported your claim here. I already said I agree we should keep God's commandments. The question is whether or not we can do so perfectly, and Jesus demonstrated that no one but Himself could keep them. He didn't need to come to teach us to keep commandments if that, alone, was the goal, because God sent prophets all throughout the OT period to give the law and to remind the people to keep them. The whole sacrificial system was implemented because God knew that the people couldn't keep the law He told them to keep.
This is a lie. Jesus says you will keep the commandments and do even greater things than he did.
...
Again, John 14
12 Verily, verily, I say unto you, He that believeth on me, the works that I do shall he do also; and greater works than these shall he do; because I go unto my Father.
15 If ye love me, keep my commandments.
21 He that hath my commandments, and keepeth them, he it is that loveth me: and he that loveth me shall be loved of my Father, and I will love him, and will manifest myself to him.
quote:Jesus kept the commandments to fulfill the covenant of works given to Adam. His death was a payment for sin that was required due to disobedience to the law by us humans, including you, if you abandon your idolatry and trust in Jesus.
And your entire bullshite about his death is that he kept the commandments.
quote:Jesus taught that He is the path and the way, not our own works of keeping commandments. We are to keep the commandments because God is holy, and obedience to the law pleases Him. Giving understanding that the law (I assume you mean the 10 commandments?) should be kept doesn't mean we have the ability to keep it perfectly. If we don't, we sin against God, and therefore have guilt for it. You have to explain what we do with that guilt.
I keep the commandments because God gave me the understanding to do so. I was made to understand "The Path" or "The Way" is a real thing. If I fail or do otherwise has no bearing on the validity of it. Just as you driving in the ditch instead of the road doesn't change where the road is.
quote:If you believe what the Bible says about Him regarding Him understanding the way, then you either have to accept all of what the Bible says about Jesus, or you have to admit that you don't really know what Jesus understood, because the source for what He understood is faulty and untrustworthy. Perhaps you should stop mentioning Jesus at all and accept that your view is not what He taught, ultimately.
As far as Jesus goes, I just see someone who understands and knows what I know. I didn't learn it from Jesus, your bible or anything else like that. But understanding is universal and I know when I see a true expression.
quote:I disagree about the destruction part, but I agree that nothing sinful can enter into Heaven. It's why Jesus imputes His righteousness to sinners so we can be judicially righteous, and then He cleanses us entirely from sin (called "glorification") upon our deaths so that our souls can enter heaven "clean" and without sin.
You simply can not be someone who sins and live in heaven. You very presence would destroy it.
You admit that sin exists and that sinners cannot live in heaven. You need to account for what we do with the sins that we do commit, because we do not obey the law perfectly. Not even you.
Posted on 9/17/26 at 11:54 am to 3down10
...continued...
Jesus spoke of His own death as part of His mission to remove sin, not to be a mere example. If you ignore that, you have no reason to believe anything else He allegedly said in the Bible.
Not only that, but Luke, the author of the gospel account, also wrote Acts, which details Paul's conversion experience, including meeting with Jesus. If you deny Paul, you deny Luke. If you deny Luke, you can't trust anything he says in his gospel account.
Why you don't "dine with Paul" (that's a weird thing to say, by the way) is that he brings clarity that destroys your supposed understanding. He has to be wrong according to your own beliefs, and therefore you must reject what he has to say.
At the end of the day, you are very ignorant of what Christianity teaches, and seem to have had some sort of demonic experience that you use to justify some idolatrous version of God that only you have "understanding" about. You're no different than Muhammad or Joseph Smith, who claimed to have private revelations from God that contradicted what has been with us for thousands of years in the Bible, and then gone on to tell people, "just trust me!"
quote:Like I said previously, if you see that, then you need to accept what the Bible says about Him, and what He says about Himself in the Bible. You can't pick and choose, otherwise you aren't seeing the Father in Jesus, but seeing your own beliefs in only some of the words of the Bible.
I don't just see Jesus as a wise man, I see the father in Jesus.
Jesus spoke of His own death as part of His mission to remove sin, not to be a mere example. If you ignore that, you have no reason to believe anything else He allegedly said in the Bible.
quote:Paul says nothing contradictory to what Jesus said, though. He's in perfect alignment, because, as Peter says, Paul's writings are Scripture and therefore are "God-breathed", and God cannot lie and contradict Himself.
You follow Paul and I do not dine with Paul. He not only lacks basic understanding he tries to hide it from others.
I do not dine with Paul.
Not only that, but Luke, the author of the gospel account, also wrote Acts, which details Paul's conversion experience, including meeting with Jesus. If you deny Paul, you deny Luke. If you deny Luke, you can't trust anything he says in his gospel account.
Why you don't "dine with Paul" (that's a weird thing to say, by the way) is that he brings clarity that destroys your supposed understanding. He has to be wrong according to your own beliefs, and therefore you must reject what he has to say.
At the end of the day, you are very ignorant of what Christianity teaches, and seem to have had some sort of demonic experience that you use to justify some idolatrous version of God that only you have "understanding" about. You're no different than Muhammad or Joseph Smith, who claimed to have private revelations from God that contradicted what has been with us for thousands of years in the Bible, and then gone on to tell people, "just trust me!"
Posted on 9/17/26 at 11:59 am to hawgfaninc
Hope so
Posted on 9/17/26 at 2:41 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I believe it is. The Scriptures have been preserved over time and have the marks of divinity. It's not an experience that can be contradictory.
People can believe anything.
It contradicts itself all the time. John 14 for example completely destroys Paul.
And it's been preserved because it's a useful tool of control since Paul teaches submission to the state in direct opposition to Jesus.
Knowledge of the holy is understanding, not belief.
quote:
How do you think the Spirit works? You think that He teaches all things to all randomly to random people based on their initial lucky guess that they should ask for it from Him, specifically? How will anyone know to do what you've said without the Spirit pursuing them first?
In that verse, Jesus was speaking to His apostles, and then He did that as recorded in the book of Acts. The Bible is how we know who God is and what He has done and will do. The fact that you referenced the Bible to support your belief shows the necessity of it.
I told you already, you need to become as a child.
And no, he wasn't talking to just the apostles. In John 14:24 he addresses the fact he is talking about people who do NOT know him. He wasn't talking to them at all. He addresses those who know him prior to that in 21, 22 and 23 - where he tells you to keep the commandments.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
Try again.
quote:
Why don't you write down all the understanding that you do have and share it with others? Isn't that what the prophets, apostles, and the apostles' disciples did? That way, others can know the truth and know what to do to seek after it.
Why didn't Jesus write it down? Because it's understanding, the only thing you can do is create an expression of it.
What he did was talk to people and engage with them directly.
quote:
It seems you are contradicting yourself by sharing information that people will not know without already having the understanding you're talking about while saying you aren't a teacher and can't grant understanding, yourself. OK, so you can't grant understanding, but you are telling me things that you expect me to believe (such as asking God for this understanding), assuming that I have enough understanding to accept the teaching you are providing to at least get the ball rolling.
I specifically don't expect you to do anything. Just as Jesus never expected the Pharisees to change. That's what you are equivalent too.
In fact, I have highlighted you are completely incapable of it and why.
But those with ears will hear me.
quote:
What you've conceded here is that the same conclusion that Jesus reflects the Father can be ascertained by the existing Scriptures and that a new revelational experience is not needed to at least understand this truth intellectually.
No. Knowledge of the holy is understanding. The existing scriptures are full of bullshite too. Do you kill your neighbor over how they plant their crops? And Christians had to rearrange it to create the narrative to make the claim it supports Jesus.
quote:
Got you. So you use the Bible when it's helpful to you, but you don't really care about it otherwise. You have your own religion or version of reality that only you've been given access to with no way to prove that it's true, other than to say, "trust me, I've seen God". Am I understanding that right?
The bible is not an authority on God. That doesn't mean it's 100% crap, it just means it's not an authority. Take an old science book from the 40s. It's not going to be an authority on science either. Does that mean everything in it is false and bullshite? No, it just means parts of it were true and parts of it are not. And if you understand science, then you should be able to look at something in it and say - oh well that's not actually right.
I sometimes find lots of deep wisdom and understanding in it. And then I often see some of the most untrue bullshite you can imagine - especially when it comes to Paul and what the Roman empire did to completely destroy the teachings of Jesus.
If you opened a math book and it said 1+1=2 and then next to it you saw 3+3=4. How would you treat it? Do you pretend the 1+1=2 isn't true, or do you have to pretend the 3+3=4 is also true when it's not? And if you lacked understanding of math, how would you know at all, other than to either accept it as true or accept it as false? You couldn't. I point out 1+1=2 is true and 3+3=4 is false.
That's why Gods actual riches is not in silver and gold, it's in wisdom, knowledge and understanding.
quote:
I deny that it teaches anything false, since I believe it is God's word, testified by prophets and apostles who performed public miracles. I also deny that it "evolved". You'll need to support those claims.
A demonstration you lack understanding. How can you support claims of 3+3=6 instead of 3+3=4 if the person demanding the proof has no understanding of math?
quote:
You've said this before, but it's nonsensical. You keep saying I don't know God and all I have to do is ask, but I've asked, and what I've received in response in the Bible. Either God gave me a false direction, or God hasn't answered me.
Plus, it's quite convenient for you to respond to every challenge with, "you just lack understanding". You need to do more than that. Humans are rational creatures, so you need to support your claim to truth in some way.
You didn't ask God, you asked the bible. You just said so yourself.
quote:
You haven't supported your claim here. I already said I agree we should keep God's commandments. The question is whether or not we can do so perfectly, and Jesus demonstrated that no one but Himself could keep them. He didn't need to come to teach us to keep commandments if that, alone, was the goal, because God sent prophets all throughout the OT period to give the law and to remind the people to keep them. The whole sacrificial system was implemented because God knew that the people couldn't keep the law He told them to keep.
No you don't. You support what Paul claimed that you just need to claim Jesus is Lord and that he died for the cross on your sins. You say it impossible to not sin.
Jesus will say he knows you not. I know/recognized him because I know the father.
The true sacrifice of Jesus is that he showed people the way knowing whose world this is and that he would be killed for doing it.
And that way has always been available to people since the start, and is available to anyone of any culture. There are 2 ways people walk it - understanding and heart. Heart to mean people who are just naturally good and righteous. They just naturally do it, truly blessed. And understanding for people such as me, who need to see why.
Posted on 9/17/26 at 2:41 pm to hawgfaninc
One small problem, the current Pope is for the Muslims.
Posted on 9/17/26 at 2:41 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Jesus taught that He is the path and the way, not our own works of keeping commandments. We are to keep the commandments because God is holy, and obedience to the law pleases Him. Giving understanding that the law (I assume you mean the 10 commandments?) should be kept doesn't mean we have the ability to keep it perfectly. If we don't, we sin against God, and therefore have guilt for it. You have to explain what we do with that guilt.
Jesus is a true expression of the path and the way. Just like 1+1=2 is also a true expression. But memorizing 1+1=2 doesn't give you the understanding of math, and while you can memorize the true statement, it offers you no benefit in life because you will never be able to apply it.
If you follow it, then you can walk the path. Which is a real thing and a requirement to be part of "heaven".
The commandments become obvious once you understand the father is within. When can make a list of them such as the 10, but it's like saying 1+1=2, 1+2=3 etc. If you have the understanding, such as what Jesus said, or the golden rule etc, then you see it fleshed out more and it's easier to follow.
quote:
If you believe what the Bible says about Him regarding Him understanding the way, then you either have to accept all of what the Bible says about Jesus, or you have to admit that you don't really know what Jesus understood, because the source for what He understood is faulty and untrustworthy. Perhaps you should stop mentioning Jesus at all and accept that your view is not what He taught, ultimately.
I do not at all have to do that, and you can go frick yourself. You are the one that goes against what he says because you are a follower of Paul.
quote:
I disagree about the destruction part, but I agree that nothing sinful can enter into Heaven. It's why Jesus imputes His righteousness to sinners so we can be judicially righteous, and then He cleanses us entirely from sin (called "glorification") upon our deaths so that our souls can enter heaven "clean" and without sin.
You admit that sin exists and that sinners cannot live in heaven. You need to account for what we do with the sins that we do commit, because we do not obey the law perfectly. Not even you.
This is all Paul crap, not Jesus.
You are forgiven for your mistakes when you correct them. AKA you walk the path. And if you don't, you will suffer the 2nd death out of mercy and you will no longer exist.
The other question is all the ones you are doing that you are unaware of. Such as so many people who use government to murder people and so on. And it is those who deceive who will suffer that, but also you need to learn from it as part of learning good from evil so that you do not support it.
Again, these are requirements, you can not get around them. If Jesus is just going to "cleanse" you suddenly, rather than it being about you gaining understanding, then there is no reason to be here to start with.
Posted on 9/17/26 at 3:07 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Like I said previously, if you see that, then you need to accept what the Bible says about Him, and what He says about Himself in the Bible. You can't pick and choose, otherwise you aren't seeing the Father in Jesus, but seeing your own beliefs in only some of the words of the Bible.
Jesus spoke of His own death as part of His mission to remove sin, not to be a mere example. If you ignore that, you have no reason to believe anything else He allegedly said in the Bible.
Wrong.
You are just like the Pharisees with Jesus. He corrected them and they would do this same crap.
He said if you follow him you will walk the path and you will be saved. He told that to the rich man, not your Paul bullshite. His death was part of showing the way, and the sacrifice is doing it when he didn't need to do so.
quote:
Paul says nothing contradictory to what Jesus said, though. He's in perfect alignment, because, as Peter says, Paul's writings are Scripture and therefore are "God-breathed", and God cannot lie and contradict Himself.
Not only that, but Luke, the author of the gospel account, also wrote Acts, which details Paul's conversion experience, including meeting with Jesus. If you deny Paul, you deny Luke. If you deny Luke, you can't trust anything he says in his gospel account.
Why you don't "dine with Paul" (that's a weird thing to say, by the way) is that he brings clarity that destroys your supposed understanding. He has to be wrong according to your own beliefs, and therefore you must reject what he has to say.
Peter did not write that. It was written by someone in the 2nd century and they used Peter's name to falsely grab authority. You are ignoring history. They do no match.
Acts is complete bullshite from start to finish where it does nothing but try to claim Paul has equal authority to Peter. It's a PR campaign for Paul to smooth over the fact that the actual apostles did not like or agree with him. Paul tried to split "territory" up and so forth.
quote:
At the end of the day, you are very ignorant of what Christianity teaches, and seem to have had some sort of demonic experience that you use to justify some idolatrous version of God that only you have "understanding" about. You're no different than Muhammad or Joseph Smith, who claimed to have private revelations from God that contradicted what has been with us for thousands of years in the Bible, and then gone on to tell people, "just trust me!"
No, you've made it very clear what you teach. You are a follower of Paul. Who is no different than Muhammad or Joseph Smith.
Jesus talked of walking the path and changing yourself. Paul turns it into legal transaction of debt "justified by faith" claiming all you need to do is say Jesus is Lord and that he died on the cross for your sins.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Posted on 9/19/26 at 11:15 pm to 3down10
quote:Obviously, as evidence by your brand of Gnosticism.
People can believe anything.
quote:It doesn't. There is nothing contradictory with Jesus' command to do good works and Paul's command to do good works. Paul just clarifies that good works flow from salvation, not contribute to it, just as Jesus taught many times when He said "believe" for salvation, and then a good tree (a saved person) will bear good fruit (works). James confirms that, as well.
It contradicts itself all the time. John 14 for example completely destroys Paul.
quote:Please explain what sort of control you think exists. Christianity teaches to believe in Jesus for salvation. You are teaching to do good works for salvation. Which one do you think provides more "control"?
And it's been preserved because it's a useful tool of control since Paul teaches submission to the state in direct opposition to Jesus.
quote:That's an irrational statement. You can't understand anything if you do not exhibit belief. You have to believe the knowledge is true as well as the source of it is true. You cannot separate belief from knowledge/understanding or else you resort to pure skepticism.
Knowledge of the holy is understanding, not belief.
quote:OK teacher. How is one to know that without God coming to them and revealing it like he did to you (supposedly)?
I told you already, you need to become as a child.
quote:Check again. He was speaking to His disciples in the upper room before His betrayal and trial. When Jesus was speaking of His Spirit being sent, the immediate context is that He was going to send Him to the apostles to comfort them when Jesus leaves them (in His ascension). If you want to apply that to anyone outside the apostles, you'll have to explain how so few--if any--know "all things", because as Jesus said in John 3, the Spirit goes where He will, like the wind.
And no, he wasn't talking to just the apostles. In John 14:24 he addresses the fact he is talking about people who do NOT know him. He wasn't talking to them at all. He addresses those who know him prior to that in 21, 22 and 23 - where he tells you to keep the commandments.
John 14:24 He that loveth me not keepeth not my sayings: and the word which ye hear is not mine, but the Father's which sent me.
quote:Jesus did this because He was the one revealing the truth to His disciples who then wrote down what God intended for us to know so that it wouldn't be lost. You are claiming some form of new revelation, and since you are not God, you should probably share this revelation with others. I'll buy take a copy of your first draft as soon as it's ready, because apparently Jesus wasn't the one with words of eternal life: you have them.
Why didn't Jesus write it down? Because it's understanding, the only thing you can do is create an expression of it.
What he did was talk to people and engage with them directly.
quote:I have ears to hear the Lord. He said that His sheep hear His voice. You do not hear His voice, because you reject Him. You have your own words, likely inspired by Satan, himself.
I specifically don't expect you to do anything. Just as Jesus never expected the Pharisees to change. That's what you are equivalent too.
In fact, I have highlighted you are completely incapable of it and why.
But those with ears will hear me.
I want you to repent of your sins and turn to Christ by faith for your salvation. Apparently you don't care who is annihilated.
quote:"Knowledge of the holy is understanding" is a ridiculous statement when you don't explain what that knowledge is. All you've said so far is to keep the commandments. You haven't say what those commandments are, or why God commands us to keep them, or how we can keep them perfectly, and even how we are to know all this without you spouting your own personal experience (where's my personal encounter with your god?)
No. Knowledge of the holy is understanding. The existing scriptures are full of bullshite too. Do you kill your neighbor over how they plant their crops? And Christians had to rearrange it to create the narrative to make the claim it supports Jesus.
And no, the Christian Bible is not full of BS. You have already shown that you are almost entirely ignorant of what it teaches, and have only clung on to a few verses or passages here and there that you think are contradictory (even though they aren't), because you think it better supports your personal experience. Like you were arguing about the order of creation in Genesis with your alter account, you don't even understand Christian teaching on these things, even though you quote the Bible often when you think it supports your own false beliefs. It's rather convenient for you to pretend it supports you in one area while claiming it's not true when it contradicts your beliefs.
quote:What you are saying is that you are the authority, because only you know what parts are true and what parts are not. Unsurprisingly, it's only those parts that agree with you that are true
The bible is not an authority on God. That doesn't mean it's 100% crap, it just means it's not an authority.
But yes, the Bible is God's word, so it is the authority for all people. Only it contains all that is necessary for faith and life.
quote:You are assuming there is a higher standard to appeal to in the science book. That's not true with the Bible. The Bible and a science book make two absolutely different claims, so you can't compare them to one another as if they are the same.
Take an old science book from the 40s. It's not going to be an authority on science either. Does that mean everything in it is false and bullshite? No, it just means parts of it were true and parts of it are not. And if you understand science, then you should be able to look at something in it and say - oh well that's not actually right.
quote:If the Bible is not true, or at least not trustworthy, then it doesn't provide anything you can consider wisdom, except that which you already believe to be true, in which case, it's absolutely irrelevant and can be destroyed with no loss.
I sometimes find lots of deep wisdom and understanding in it. And then I often see some of the most untrue bullshite you can imagine - especially when it comes to Paul and what the Roman empire did to completely destroy the teachings of Jesus.
quote:AKA, Gnosticism. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. You think some sort of mental understanding and assent is the way, rather than God, Himself.
That's why Gods actual riches is not in silver and gold, it's in wisdom, knowledge and understanding.
quote:You explain it, including providing a basis for how we can know it is true. You haven't done anything of the sort. You've just given some nonsensical platitudes that amount to "just trust me, because I saw god". You've given me no reason to believe you or to doubt the Bible. In fact, you seem to be an irrational sort of person and quite a jerk, so you don't exactly fit the bill of a prophet.
A demonstration you lack understanding. How can you support claims of 3+3=6 instead of 3+3=4 if the person demanding the proof has no understanding of math?
quote:No, I asked God. I asked God in prayer, and the answer to that prayer was found in the Bible.
You didn't ask God, you asked the bible. You just said so yourself.
quote:I support what both Jesus and Paul claimed: Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that I am to believe, and in my belief, I am to follow after Jesus with good works.
No you don't. You support what Paul claimed that you just need to claim Jesus is Lord and that he died for the cross on your sins. You say it impossible to not sin.
Posted on 9/19/26 at 11:39 pm to 3down10
quote:No, Jesus isn't an expression of the way, but He says He is the way. It's why He said no one comes to the Father except through Him. He isn't just some sort of example or sign post, but He is the one who brings us to the Father. You are reducing Him to a mere prophet that told us how to save ourselves through "understanding". The demons have more understanding than we do, and yet they are not saved and can never be.
Jesus is a true expression of the path and the way. Just like 1+1=2 is also a true expression. But memorizing 1+1=2 doesn't give you the understanding of math, and while you can memorize the true statement, it offers you no benefit in life because you will never be able to apply it.
If you follow it, then you can walk the path. Which is a real thing and a requirement to be part of "heaven".
quote:You are nuts, man. I am here to provide clarity. I provide explanations. You are talking about math problems.
The commandments become obvious once you understand the father is within. When can make a list of them such as the 10, but it's like saying 1+1=2, 1+2=3 etc. If you have the understanding, such as what Jesus said, or the golden rule etc, then you see it fleshed out more and it's easier to follow.
Answer plainly: if "salvation" depends upon keeping the commandments like you say, you need to share what those commandments are. God told Israel to keep His commandments, and He didn't leave it up to them to guess what they were. He gave them to them on tablets of stone. Don't give a math equation. Give the commandments that you were given from "god" that we are supposed to follow. All of them. "Salvation" depends upon it.
quote:I have shown that Paul and Jesus actually are in alignment, because both spoke the words of God in the Scriptures.
I do not at all have to do that, and you can go frick yourself. You are the one that goes against what he says because you are a follower of Paul.
And yes, you do need to do as I said, because you can't just pick and choose what is acceptable from the Bible arbitrarily. You have to support your claims. There's no reason to expect anyone to believe you otherwise.
You haven't supported any of your claims. All you've done so far is said that you had a personal experience where you claimed to meet god and he told you that you need to keep the commandments for salvation. You haven't supported your claims with miracles, like God did in the Bible through the prophets. You haven't shown that the Bible is corrupted, but have just made false assertions based on our lack of understanding (ironically). You haven't given any reason to believe you, and you refuse to do so when pressed: you just keep saying I lack understanding. OK, then help me understand. If you don't want to do that, then you are admitting that the only way I can know the truth is by listening to YOU, but YOU are refusing to tell me what to do. I'm already like a child with God (I submit to His teaching as revealed in the Scriptures). I do call out to Him for understanding (and He's answered by giving me understanding in abundance). He's answered my prayers and shown me the truth. He's even shown me how to spot a false prophet, like yourself.
What He hasn't done is given me a special knowledge that hasn't been shared with anyone else, like you are claiming. That's a true sign of a false prophet: you have a private revelation and cannot prove that God said anything to you at all. All you've done is say the equivalent of "trust me, bro!"
quote:Which part?
This is all Paul crap, not Jesus.
Jesus supported the claim that you must be perfect as the Father is perfect (Matthew 5:20, 28).
Jesus teaches that no one is "good" (perfect) but God (Mark 10:18; Matthew 19:16-26)
Jesus ties the forgiveness of sins (what is necessary to enter heaven) to His own death (Matthew 26:28; Mark 10:45; Matthew 9:2-6)
Jesus teaches that entering heaven requires an act of God, not of man (John 3:3,5; 8:34,36)
quote:God says the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4). You can't "correct" sin, because sin is breaking God's law. You can't murder someone and then stand before the judge and say, "it's cool, your honor, because after I killed that guy, I donated all my savings to a starving person to save their life". You are guilty, and can't judge make up for sin. That's why Jesus had to die as a payment. Sin against an infinitely holy God requires a sacrifice of infinite value. We cannot pay our own sin-debt.
You are forgiven for your mistakes when you correct them. AKA you walk the path. And if you don't, you will suffer the 2nd death out of mercy and you will no longer exist.
Not only that, but I understand that "walking the path" (obeying the commandments) means obedience to God's revealed will, and repenting of sin when we disobey. I do this. I strive to be obedient each and every day, and when I sin, I repent to God for it and seek to obey afresh. Apparently that's not good enough according to your Gnostic claims, isn't it?
quote:Can you be specific about this? How am I using government to murder people?
The other question is all the ones you are doing that you are unaware of. Such as so many people who use government to murder people and so on. And it is those who deceive who will suffer that, but also you need to learn from it as part of learning good from evil so that you do not support it.
quote:We are here to give glory to God and to do the good works He has prepared for us to do by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the entire point: to give God glory by loving Him and loving our neighbor. It's more than "understanding", but also believing and doing.
Again, these are requirements, you can not get around them. If Jesus is just going to "cleanse" you suddenly, rather than it being about you gaining understanding, then there is no reason to be here to start with.
Posted on 9/20/26 at 12:12 am to 3down10
quote:No, right. You are condemned already for not believing in the Son of God. You are believing in "understanding" (Gnosticism), and legalism.
Wrong.
quote:I'm not like the Pharisees. I'm more like the Bereans, testing your teaching according to the word of God. You are telling me that I need to ignore the Bible and just listen to you as the only source of truth.
You are just like the Pharisees with Jesus. He corrected them and they would do this same crap.
quote:He said if you believe on Him, you will be saved. Here are all the times that Jesus said that salvation comes by faith in Him (without referring to works):
He said if you follow him you will walk the path and you will be saved. He told that to the rich man, not your Paul bullshite. His death was part of showing the way, and the sacrifice is doing it when he didn't need to do so
John 3:15-16; John 3:18; John 5:24; John 6:29; John 6:35; John 6:40; John 6:47; John 8:24; John 10:9; John 11:25-26; John 12:46; John 14:1; John 14:6; John 20:31; Luke 7:50; Luke 8:48; Mark 5:34; Matthew 9:22; Mark 16:16; Matthew 11:28; Luke 19:10
Are you going to reject all these because those don't fit the narrative that it's obedient works rather than faith that is the basis for salvation?
quote:Prove it. You don't do much of that.
Peter did not write that. It was written by someone in the 2nd century and they used Peter's name to falsely grab authority. You are ignoring history. They do no match.
Origin knew of 2 Peter in the early 3rd century, which means it had to have been written before that. The early church also didn't like pseudepigraphal writings. They rejected all of the writings that claimed the name of an apostle of Jesus that clearly came later, but 2 Peter was not rejected by the church.
Regarding the stylistic differences between 1 Peter and 2 Peter, there are several reasons for why that is the case, including Peter using different amanuenses (secretaries) to write it for him.
quote:As an aside, I've noticed an increase in profanity when you are losing your points. I'd advise you calm down and demonstrate you are a follower of the way rather than resorting to vulgar language like the rest of the world
Acts is complete bullshite from start to finish where it does nothing but try to claim Paul has equal authority to Peter. It's a PR campaign for Paul to smooth over the fact that the actual apostles did not like or agree with him. Paul tried to split "territory" up and so forth.
Regarding Acts, you need to prove your claim here. It, itself, claims to be written by the same author of the gospel of Luke. If you think Luke was just a patsy for Paul, you need to prove that. If you can't trust it, you can't trust the gospel of Luke, either. Is that going to be your claim? You need to prove it.
quote:No, I'm a follower of Jesus. Paul confirmed Jesus, not himself. Paul's writings are consistent with Jesus' words. Your ignorance of both is evident, which is why you attack Paul, even though I can support my beliefs from non-Pauline Scripture. You don't engage with that because you know you're wrong about it. Paul is a convenient bogeyman for you, but I imagine it's because you are actually uneducated in Christianity and latch on to some tropes that make you feel better about rejecting the historic Christian faith while believing in some sort of resurrected Gnostic heresy.
No, you've made it very clear what you teach. You are a follower of Paul. Who is no different than Muhammad or Joseph Smith.
quote:You are ridiculous. You haven't even read Paul, have you?
Jesus talked of walking the path and changing yourself. Paul turns it into legal transaction of debt "justified by faith" claiming all you need to do is say Jesus is Lord and that he died on the cross for your sins.
And why call ye me, Lord, Lord, and do not the things which I say?
Here's a list of passages where Paul affirms the moral duty of Christians to perform good works:
Rom 1:5; 2:6-10; 3:31; 6:1-2, 15, 16-19; 7:12, 14, 22; 8:3-4, 12-14; 13:8-10; 15:18; 16:26; 1 Cor 3:12-15; 6:9-10; 7:19; 9:21; 15:58; 2 Cor 5:10; 9:8; 10:5-6; Gal 5:6, 14, 19-25; 6:2, 7-10; Eph 2:8-10; 5:5; 6:1-3; Phil 1:11; 2:12-13; Col 1:10; 3:5-6, 17; 1 Thess 1:3; 2 Thess 1:8, 11; 2:17; 3:14; 1 Tim 1:8-11; 2:10; 5:10, 25; 6:18; 2 Tim 2:21; 3:17; Titus 1:16; 2:14; 3:1, 8, 14; Acts 20:35; 26:20; 1 Cor 7:10; 9:14; 11:23-25; 1 Thess 4:2; 1 Tim 5:18; 6:3, 14.
I've referenced it multiple times, but Paul expressly states that we are created for good works: Ephesians 2:10.
Your ignorance is almost shocking for someone who speaks with such certainty.
Posted on 9/20/26 at 12:58 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Obviously, as evidence by your brand of Gnosticism.
I'm gnostic, not Gnostic.
quote:
It doesn't. There is nothing contradictory with Jesus' command to do good works and Paul's command to do good works. Paul just clarifies that good works flow from salvation, not contribute to it, just as Jesus taught many times when He said "believe" for salvation, and then a good tree (a saved person) will bear good fruit (works). James confirms that, as well.
Good works are not required according to Paul. Only declaring Jesus is Lord and believing he died on the cross. James mocked Paul over this in James 2.
The truth and what James and Jesus talk about is that when you walk the path/follow the way, you will do "good works" along with way automatically.
Jesus didn't speak of a free gift to the rich man, of which the rich man would have surely accepted. Jesus told the man he had to sell his things and follow the path. That it was easier to get a camel through the eye of a needle than a rich man into heaven. Paul says all that rich man needs to do is declare Jesus is Lord and believe Jesus died for his sins.
quote:
Please explain what sort of control you think exists. Christianity teaches to believe in Jesus for salvation. You are teaching to do good works for salvation. Which one do you think provides more "control"?
Christianity teaches you Pauline doctrine which is to worship an idol.
I am telling that you have to keep the commandments and walk the path/follow the way. Just doing what you think are good deeds is not that, but when you walk the path they will happen naturally.
quote:
That's an irrational statement. You can't understand anything if you do not exhibit belief. You have to believe the knowledge is true as well as the source of it is true. You cannot separate belief from knowledge/understanding or else you resort to pure skepticism.
That was Proverbs 9:10
quote:
OK teacher. How is one to know that without God coming to them and revealing it like he did to you (supposedly)?
Honesty and a true desire for truth. You must become like a child, which is to look at things openly without bias. A child does not pretend to know the answers, he only seeks out of honest curiosity and without bias on what the answer may be. If you ask men, you will get an answer from men. And I am a man, thus I can not give it to you. But I can see that you are stuck on the wrong thing.
quote:
Check again. He was speaking to His disciples in the upper room before His betrayal and trial. When Jesus was speaking of His Spirit being sent, the immediate context is that He was going to send Him to the apostles to comfort them when Jesus leaves them (in His ascension). If you want to apply that to anyone outside the apostles, you'll have to explain how so few--if any--know "all things", because as Jesus said in John 3, the Spirit goes where He will, like the wind.
I don't need to check again. Not only is that not what he is saying, I know for a fact it is true because that is what I experienced.
It doesn't matter what culture you come from, the same things are available to everyone. There are lies and deceptions that prevent people from seeing it, but it exists at a fundamental level. Because it is understanding, and like math, it is universal.
And that is also how the "holy ghost" can speak to anyone regardless of what language they speak. Because it gives in understanding, not the expression of it. It is the only true teacher. I am a man, I can not give it to you.
quote:
Jesus did this because He was the one revealing the truth to His disciples who then wrote down what God intended for us to know so that it wouldn't be lost. You are claiming some form of new revelation, and since you are not God, you should probably share this revelation with others. I'll buy take a copy of your first draft as soon as it's ready, because apparently Jesus wasn't the one with words of eternal life: you have them.
No, the disciples did not write them. Most of them were written by other people long after the disciples were dead. You are ignoring history.
I told you already, there is only one true teacher and it is not me. I am limited to words, I can not give you understanding. At best I can only reveal something that was already given to you.
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I have ears to hear the Lord. He said that His sheep hear His voice. You do not hear His voice, because you reject Him. You have your own words, likely inspired by Satan, himself.
I want you to repent of your sins and turn to Christ by faith for your salvation. Apparently you don't care who is annihilated.
Let's see. I tell you that you need to keep the commandments and that you need to work on gaining understanding to do so properly.
You teach that a person only need to get their free gift and they are saved. Which enables people to sin and not walk the path and still believe they will be saved.
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"Knowledge of the holy is understanding" is a ridiculous statement when you don't explain what that knowledge is. All you've said so far is to keep the commandments. You haven't say what those commandments are, or why God commands us to keep them, or how we can keep them perfectly, and even how we are to know all this without you spouting your own personal experience (where's my personal encounter with your god?)
And no, the Christian Bible is not full of BS. You have already shown that you are almost entirely ignorant of what it teaches, and have only clung on to a few verses or passages here and there that you think are contradictory (even though they aren't), because you think it better supports your personal experience. Like you were arguing about the order of creation in Genesis with your alter account, you don't even understand Christian teaching on these things, even though you quote the Bible often when you think it supports your own false beliefs. It's rather convenient for you to pretend it supports you in one area while claiming it's not true when it contradicts your beliefs.
Again, that is Proverbs you are calling a ridiculous statement.
Do you even know what you are?
Posted on 9/20/26 at 12:58 am to FooManChoo
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What you are saying is that you are the authority, because only you know what parts are true and what parts are not. Unsurprisingly, it's only those parts that agree with you that are true
But yes, the Bible is God's word, so it is the authority for all people. Only it contains all that is necessary for faith and life.
A man who understands math can tell you if 1+1=2 and 1+1=3 is true or false. That makes them an authority.
Matthew 7
28 And it came to pass, when Jesus had ended these sayings, the people were astonished at his doctrine:
29 For he taught them as one having authority, and not as the scribes.
The bible is the word of man. The only authority it has is that which you give it.
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You are assuming there is a higher standard to appeal to in the science book. That's not true with the Bible. The Bible and a science book make two absolutely different claims, so you can't compare them to one another as if they are the same.
Anyone could just stop accepting anything that happened in the future and cling to the old science book and claim everything else was invalid. Especially if the books are government approved like the bible.
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If the Bible is not true, or at least not trustworthy, then it doesn't provide anything you can consider wisdom, except that which you already believe to be true, in which case, it's absolutely irrelevant and can be destroyed with no loss.
It's a collection of books written by man doing their best to express the understandings they had at the time. You are the one that elevates them into something more.
Thomas Jefferson had the right idea.
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AKA, Gnosticism. Jesus is the way, the truth, and the life. You think some sort of mental understanding and assent is the way, rather than God, Himself.
I do not belong to any Gnosticism religion, or any religion.
What the bible calls the Holy Ghost is that which teaches and gives you understanding. It is the only true teacher. God is within, not a physical location. That which is spirit is spirit and that which is flesh is flesh. Which is also to say consciousness vs the physical reality.
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You explain it, including providing a basis for how we can know it is true. You haven't done anything of the sort. You've just given some nonsensical platitudes that amount to "just trust me, because I saw god". You've given me no reason to believe you or to doubt the Bible. In fact, you seem to be an irrational sort of person and quite a jerk, so you don't exactly fit the bill of a prophet.
Teach your dog algebra.
Jesus was also called a jerk, a blasphemer, a subverter, lawbreaker and so forth by the Pharisees. He openly called them hypocrites, blind guides(like you) and whitewashed tombs that looked holy on the outside but were spiritually dead inside.
So I appreciate the compliment.
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No, I asked God. I asked God in prayer, and the answer to that prayer was found in the Bible.
You looked in the bible for your answer because you asked the bible your question.
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I support what both Jesus and Paul claimed: Jesus died on the cross for my sins and that I am to believe, and in my belief, I am to follow after Jesus with good works.
Only Paul claims that.
It's like God comes to earth, and places a sign on earth that says "Heaven -> 50 miles". And then people start to argue with the sign claiming it's false, but some people see the sign and start to follow it.
The locals priest have a fit and tell the government to take the sign down. So they come along with a shovel and dig up the sign. Some people say remember the sign and say - this is the direction the sign said. And then someone else comes a long, says you just need to worship the sign, you put a shovel around your neck and claim the sign saves you. And none of you actually follow the sign, you just sit around and praise it.
The sign can save you, but only if you follow. You sit around and worship the sign and expecting the sign to come pick you and give you a free ride instead.
You have to follow the sign and keep the commandments(path) it shows.
Posted on 9/20/26 at 1:39 am to FooManChoo
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No, Jesus isn't an expression of the way, but He says He is the way. It's why He said no one comes to the Father except through Him. He isn't just some sort of example or sign post, but He is the one who brings us to the Father. You are reducing Him to a mere prophet that told us how to save ourselves through "understanding". The demons have more understanding than we do, and yet they are not saved and can never be.
You put value on the variable instead of the understanding behind it. You worship the 1+1=2. Is it a true statement? Yes. Is it the entire point? No, it's useless without the understanding behind it.
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You are nuts, man. I am here to provide clarity. I provide explanations. You are talking about math problems.
Answer plainly: if "salvation" depends upon keeping the commandments like you say, you need to share what those commandments are. God told Israel to keep His commandments, and He didn't leave it up to them to guess what they were. He gave them to them on tablets of stone. Don't give a math equation. Give the commandments that you were given from "god" that we are supposed to follow. All of them. "Salvation" depends upon it.
I'm using math to show you the difference between understanding math and expressing it, because I assume you have understanding of math and then can see the difference.
Do you guess on a math test when it says 1+1=X?
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I have shown that Paul and Jesus actually are in alignment, because both spoke the words of God in the Scriptures.
And yes, you do need to do as I said, because you can't just pick and choose what is acceptable from the Bible arbitrarily. You have to support your claims. There's no reason to expect anyone to believe you otherwise.
Yes I can, the bible is a collection of books picked to serve the Roman empire.
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What He hasn't done is given me a special knowledge that hasn't been shared with anyone else, like you are claiming. That's a true sign of a false prophet: you have a private revelation and cannot prove that God said anything to you at all. All you've done is say the equivalent of "trust me, bro!"
I have literally told you to keep the commandments and that the way/path is an actual thing that has to be followed.
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Which part?
Jesus supported the claim that you must be perfect as the Father is perfect (Matthew 5:20, 28).
Jesus teaches that no one is "good" (perfect) but God (Mark 10:18; Matthew 19:16-26)
Jesus ties the forgiveness of sins (what is necessary to enter heaven) to His own death (Matthew 26:28; Mark 10:45; Matthew 9:2-6)
Jesus teaches that entering heaven requires an act of God, not of man (John 3:3,5; 8:34,36)
It's odd you quote those verses since they say the opposite. You bring up the rich man. And it says plain as day in Matthew 19:17
17 And he said unto him, Why callest thou me good? there is none good but one, that is, God: but if thou wilt enter into life, keep the commandments.
And yes, it requires an act of God. That's what you call the "Holy Spirit" is. That's how I learned, an act of God.
You have to band together a series of cherry picked verses to create your claims.
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God says the soul that sins shall die (Ezekiel 18:4). You can't "correct" sin, because sin is breaking God's law. You can't murder someone and then stand before the judge and say, "it's cool, your honor, because after I killed that guy, I donated all my savings to a starving person to save their life". You are guilty, and can't judge make up for sin. That's why Jesus had to die as a payment. Sin against an infinitely holy God requires a sacrifice of infinite value. We cannot pay our own sin-debt.
Not only that, but I understand that "walking the path" (obeying the commandments) means obedience to God's revealed will, and repenting of sin when we disobey. I do this. I strive to be obedient each and every day, and when I sin, I repent to God for it and seek to obey afresh. Apparently that's not good enough according to your Gnostic claims, isn't it?
If you fix your mistakes, they are forgiven. By this I mean you understand them and will no longer do them in the future. No different than what you want from your own children. You do not punish them forever, only to correct their behavior. You forgive them when they do. So while something like murder and such is bad, and it's not going to help you in the eyes of men, you can be forgiven for your mistake by God. However if you are just looking for a blind eye so that you can continue, that is not the same thing and it won't be forgiven.
You act based on your own understanding. Evident by the things I see you supporting on this forum. And yet while you quote things that talk about an act of God being required, you're determined that act is a book.
For example, you commit sin by supporting the theft of wealth from your fellow citizens. You support taking away free will on people, that is given to them by God and you want to spread death and destruction to those you deem not worthy and/or fear.
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Can you be specific about this? How am I using government to murder people?
You support foreign wars of aggression for a variety of reasons and claimed justifications.
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We are here to give glory to God and to do the good works He has prepared for us to do by faith in Jesus Christ. That is the entire point: to give God glory by loving Him and loving our neighbor. It's more than "understanding", but also believing and doing.
Psalm 111
111 Praise ye the Lord. I will praise the Lord with my whole heart, in the assembly of the upright, and in the congregation.
2 The works of the Lord are great, sought out of all them that have pleasure therein.
3 His work is honourable and glorious: and his righteousness endureth for ever.
4 He hath made his wonderful works to be remembered: the Lord is gracious and full of compassion.
5 He hath given meat unto them that fear him: he will ever be mindful of his covenant.
6 He hath shewed his people the power of his works, that he may give them the heritage of the heathen.
7 The works of his hands are verity and judgment; all his commandments are sure.
8 They stand fast for ever and ever, and are done in truth and uprightness.
9 He sent redemption unto his people: he hath commanded his covenant for ever: holy and reverend is his name.
10 The fear of the Lord is the beginning of wisdom: a good understanding have all they that do his commandments: his praise endureth for ever.
Posted on 9/20/26 at 2:44 am to FooManChoo
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I'm not like the Pharisees. I'm more like the Bereans, testing your teaching according to the word of God. You are telling me that I need to ignore the Bible and just listen to you as the only source of truth.
There is only one true teacher and it is not me.
You are the one who elevates the bible to be an authority, it is not an authority in itself. I don't. I find it a nice tool for communication. It puts labels on concepts and expresses understanding. I actually found it very comforting to be honest, but only after I gained understanding. I felt less alone to read Jesus, and books like Proverbs and Psalms.
But to claim it the word of God and authority is absurd.
I use the bible mostly for you. If you wanted to talk about things in a different way I can do it.
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He said if you believe on Him, you will be saved. Here are all the times that Jesus said that salvation comes by faith in Him (without referring to works):
He says if you believe on him, you will keep the commandments. Which is again a requirement to live a heavenly society.
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Prove it. You don't do much of that.
Origin knew of 2 Peter in the early 3rd century, which means it had to have been written before that. The early church also didn't like pseudepigraphal writings. They rejected all of the writings that claimed the name of an apostle of Jesus that clearly came later, but 2 Peter was not rejected by the church.
Regarding the stylistic differences between 1 Peter and 2 Peter, there are several reasons for why that is the case, including Peter using different amanuenses (secretaries) to write it for him.
Argue with scholars.
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As an aside, I've noticed an increase in profanity when you are losing your points. I'd advise you calm down and demonstrate you are a follower of the way rather than resorting to vulgar language like the rest of the world
Regarding Acts, you need to prove your claim here. It, itself, claims to be written by the same author of the gospel of Luke. If you think Luke was just a patsy for Paul, you need to prove that. If you can't trust it, you can't trust the gospel of Luke, either. Is that going to be your claim? You need to prove it.
Jesus wasn't nice to the pharisees either. I said it's bullshite because it's bullshite. I don't worry about outward appearance like that.
I don't trust any of them. I recognize truth and understanding when I see it. Do you trust 1+1=2 or do you know and understand 1+1=2?
Acts is just Paul trying to cut himself out as an authority. His story about seeing Jesus is completely fake and made up. He then tries to copy Peter for credibility and is routinely rejected by apostles and tries to create his own territory to be "for the gentiles".
The Romans pretty much cleared out Pauls competition, the remaining members eventually banned and called heretics by the church after Pauline doctrine took hold.
People getting the free gift version of Paul was more preferable to people who told people they had to keep the commandments. And the Pauline version exploded at the same time.
People who actually follow Jesus and God aren't very useful to government, but a free gift is a politicians wet dream, and eventually we get Pauline Doctrine as Christianity.
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No, I'm a follower of Jesus. Paul confirmed Jesus, not himself. Paul's writings are consistent with Jesus' words. Your ignorance of both is evident, which is why you attack Paul, even though I can support my beliefs from non-Pauline Scripture. You don't engage with that because you know you're wrong about it. Paul is a convenient bogeyman for you, but I imagine it's because you are actually uneducated in Christianity and latch on to some tropes that make you feel better about rejecting the historic Christian faith while believing in some sort of resurrected Gnostic heresy.
When I read Jesus, I see the father, and I see someone who I know has understanding, because it's the same understanding I was given.
When I read Paul, I see what I was made to understand not to be. A free gift sounds nice, but I just know it's bullshite. You have to keep the commandments. If you don't do that how can you live in a society without sin? It just doesn't work.
And yet somehow God has to die on the cross for you to be washed in his blood and that bypasses that obvious requirement? And only for certain people, ignoring that everyone else who has a soul.
What do you think a soul is btw?
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You are ridiculous. You haven't even read Paul, have you?
Here's a list of passages where Paul affirms the moral duty of Christians to perform good works:
Rom 1:5; 2:6-10; 3:31; 6:1-2, 15, 16-19; 7:12, 14, 22; 8:3-4, 12-14; 13:8-10; 15:18; 16:26; 1 Cor 3:12-15; 6:9-10; 7:19; 9:21; 15:58; 2 Cor 5:10; 9:8; 10:5-6; Gal 5:6, 14, 19-25; 6:2, 7-10; Eph 2:8-10; 5:5; 6:1-3; Phil 1:11; 2:12-13; Col 1:10; 3:5-6, 17; 1 Thess 1:3; 2 Thess 1:8, 11; 2:17; 3:14; 1 Tim 1:8-11; 2:10; 5:10, 25; 6:18; 2 Tim 2:21; 3:17; Titus 1:16; 2:14; 3:1, 8, 14; Acts 20:35; 26:20; 1 Cor 7:10; 9:14; 11:23-25; 1 Thess 4:2; 1 Tim 5:18; 6:3, 14.
I've referenced it multiple times, but Paul expressly states that we are created for good works: Ephesians 2:10.
Your ignorance is almost shocking for someone who speaks with such certainty.
You are just cherry picking things here and doing a form of gish gallop.
"Good works" is not the point. It's like when Jesus says many will say they did good works, but he will say he knows them not.
You have to keep the commandments, so doing a good work does not absolve you of things. If do 100 "Good works" but break other commandments - it doesn't matter. You can not go to heaven because you broke other commandments. Again, as I said earlier you can be forgiven for those, but if you do not change and follow the commandments etc, then no. At the end of the day you have to keep them, and when you do then, then you will do "good works" along the way. But they are not the point, it's not a points system.
This post was edited on 9/20/26 at 2:49 am
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