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Could any strategy have worked in Vietnam?
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:07 pm
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:07 pm
I am finishing up “The Vietnam War” by Ken Burns. I have never done this in-depth a look of the entire war. But this series seems to show that everything we could have done wrong we did do wrong. Damn. Was there anything we could have done other than not getting involved at all?
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Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:08 pm to Wolfhound45
Keeping the media and Jane Fonda out would’ve probably altered history.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:09 pm to Wolfhound45
Watching that too. From what I've learned from that show nothing but hoards of cash given to the people in the country could have worked. Even then the vc still would have happened.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:10 pm to Wolfhound45
When politicians fight wars, you can never win.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:12 pm to Wolfhound45
yeah do not get me started omn this please. after fighting commies in korea we shoulda never went when we had communists in cuba BUT we coulda destroyed them if we wanted to. 3 battleships coulda destroyed that port in north vietnam. coulda blown hanoi off the fukin map. politics ruined it
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:13 pm to Wolfhound45
If we didn't make mistakes it actually might have just dragged on longer.
Never underestimate the will of people in their own country. The Viet-Cong were in it for the long haul and totally committed.
Our piecemeal deployment showed the top brass didn't have that at the expense of the common soldier and that was the common complaint from soldiers who came back.
Never underestimate the will of people in their own country. The Viet-Cong were in it for the long haul and totally committed.
Our piecemeal deployment showed the top brass didn't have that at the expense of the common soldier and that was the common complaint from soldiers who came back.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:13 pm to Wolfhound45
The Republic of Vietnam fell when we cut aid.
If we’d kept up support, and it continued to survive, you could have called that a win.
The war itself. We didn’t need to get involved.
If we’d kept up support, and it continued to survive, you could have called that a win.
The war itself. We didn’t need to get involved.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:13 pm to Wolfhound45
Actually declare war on North Vietnam. Actually try and hold land we gain. Don’t stop the B-52 strikes on Hanoi. Get involved in Laos and Cambodia and break up the Ho Chi Minh trail. And keep the media out of it.
When you’re watching tv and see little Johnny from across the street getting shot in Vietnam, you’re going to want out. The reason Korea was successful was that it was still riding off the coattails of WW2 ie Most of the US GIs in Korea had combat experience from WW2 and the war media was still very controlled.
When you’re watching tv and see little Johnny from across the street getting shot in Vietnam, you’re going to want out. The reason Korea was successful was that it was still riding off the coattails of WW2 ie Most of the US GIs in Korea had combat experience from WW2 and the war media was still very controlled.
This post was edited on 7/6/18 at 11:21 pm
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:13 pm to Wolfhound45
I would assume a Nuke probably would have done the trick in terms of ‘winning’.
Not sure the fallout on doing that though (no pun intended)
Not sure the fallout on doing that though (no pun intended)
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:15 pm to Wolfhound45
They didn't want it to end. To much profit.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:15 pm to willymeaux
Yeah, the concept of limited war doesn’t work.
Look at how Obama handled ISIS, and compare it to how things changed under Trump. I think Mattis actually talked publicly about a strategy of annihilation.
Look at how Obama handled ISIS, and compare it to how things changed under Trump. I think Mattis actually talked publicly about a strategy of annihilation.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:16 pm to willymeaux
quote:What if China becomes directly involved like they did in Korea?
Actually declare war on North Vietnam. Actually try and hold land we gain. Don’t stop the B-52 strikes on Hanoi. Get involved in Laos and Cambodia and break up the Ho Chi Minh trail.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:16 pm to Wild Thang
Stayed out. We save 50,000 lives no telling how many wounded and billions and billions in treasure. We could not win because the pols would not allow it.
Plus maybe we don't end up with a drug culture and there never would have been an antiwar movement. That alone saves this country a lot of grief.
Plus maybe we don't end up with a drug culture and there never would have been an antiwar movement. That alone saves this country a lot of grief.
This post was edited on 7/6/18 at 11:19 pm
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:16 pm to Wolfhound45
My best hindsight, and I've studied this for all of my adult life, is more or less based on Harry Summers book, On Strategy. With U.S. support, the ARVN could likely have handled the VC, but not the NVA (and certainly not both). SO, we should have let the Diem government run wild in the interior and deal with the VC as they saw fit. If U.S. involvement had been focused exclusively on 3 things:
1. Air/artillery support of the ARVN
2. Interdiction of supplies and reinforcements coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail
3. Fighting the NVA regular units and infiltrators at the Northern and Western frontier,
...then the press coverage wouldn't have portrayed the U.S. involvement in such a negative light, the U.S. body count wouldn't have been the only story the U.S. press wanted to cover and public opinion wouldn't have soured nearly so quickly. The draft would have still been escalated, but not nearly as much and at not nearly the cost in casualties.
At least that's how I've seen it for at least 20 years.
1. Air/artillery support of the ARVN
2. Interdiction of supplies and reinforcements coming down the Ho Chi Minh trail
3. Fighting the NVA regular units and infiltrators at the Northern and Western frontier,
...then the press coverage wouldn't have portrayed the U.S. involvement in such a negative light, the U.S. body count wouldn't have been the only story the U.S. press wanted to cover and public opinion wouldn't have soured nearly so quickly. The draft would have still been escalated, but not nearly as much and at not nearly the cost in casualties.
At least that's how I've seen it for at least 20 years.
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:17 pm to willymeaux
quote:
Actually declare war on North Vietnam. Actually try and hold land we gain.
this!
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:17 pm to Ace Midnight
quote:Thanks baw
Ace Midnight
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:22 pm to Wolfhound45
Aren't you through with War College? You writing a book?
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:27 pm to Ace Midnight
I hereby christen this thread "Old Crusty Army Baw Thoughts"
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:28 pm to Ace Midnight
Graduated from USAWC in 2010. We did not study this at all. Our primary focus was on the ongoing war in Iraq at the time. Surprisingly, we did not discuss any particular strategy at all. Just general discussions. And as an MSC, my own professional development has been primarily focused on the tactical method of providing health care in a deployed and austere environment (something I am very well versed in). I have not read much on overall strategy. But I am going to download your recommendation on my Kindle and start reading this. Watching this series has really struck a chord with me.
ETA: I have been reading “This Kind of War” on and off lately. You understand why.
ETA: I have been reading “This Kind of War” on and off lately. You understand why.
This post was edited on 7/6/18 at 11:31 pm
Posted on 7/6/18 at 11:28 pm to Wolfhound45
quote:
Was there anything we could have done other than not getting involved at all?
no
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