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Message
re: Correlation: Prayer out of schools to increase in mass shootings
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:39 am to skrayper
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:39 am to skrayper
quote:
That concept predates organized religion
Examples? You may be correct but organized religion has been around a long time.
quote:
Human society relies on certain concepts that don't take a higher power to impose.
So, objective morality? A moral law with no lawgiver?
quote:
The level of arrogance it takes to state a one true religion, and that the only way to be a good person is to be part of that religion, is staggering.
Only if someone actually said that. What is being pointed out is that you can't define "good": only your personal opinion of "good".
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 11:40 am
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Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:42 am to OMLandshark
quote:
If humans only treated each other as the Nazis and Communists did, we wouldn’t last long.
So, fewer people and more food and resources is objectively bad?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:45 am to jacob4bama
quote:
As one who goes to church every Sunday. I don’t think it is Prayer in schools that is the problem. It is a lack of prayer in the homes that is the real issue. I for one do not want my child’s teachers teaching him to pray.
Yup.
I still remember the look of horror on my wife's face the night we were out to dinner with our church "small group" (Sunday school class, in the Old Tongue). They were making the case that we should be sending our kids to the Christian school in our area of Houston.
I told them I had no interest in sending my kids to a school that I found to be below the academic standing of the local public schools just because the school was "Christian". Besides, I preferred that my young kids got their scriptural influences from family and from the church we attended together. Handing that over to teachers was not my idea of taking responsibility.
I want the school to feed the brain. I will look elsewhere for feeding their soul.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:45 am to AUveritas
quote:
So, fewer people and more food and resources is objectively bad?
More food and resources for who? If they’re Nazis that have wiped out 3/4 of the world’s population to get it there. Yes, that is evil and also stealing.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:46 am to bayoumuscle21
You can still pray in schools 
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:47 am to OMLandshark
quote:
Yes, that is evil and also stealing.
According to who?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:51 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
You can still pray in school
Exactly. The only thing that was ever stopped was group prayer lead by teachers and staff during school hours.
But if Johnny wants to say a prayer before that big test...he's free to do just that. What's not ok is for Mrs. Smith to stand up at the front of the class and lead an Our Father before a test potentially forcing any non christian to either have to play along so as not to be ostracized or walk out.
Not sure why the first part is not enough and only the second part is what some many folks seem to be hellbent on returning to.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:53 am to GeauxTigerTM
quote:
I don't rape and murder because I care about the lives of other human beings
I do not believe this at all. Reason being, you probably had parents that taught you "right" from "wrong". "Good" and "bad". You can see the very nature of man in children very early in life. So, what you are saying, is you have never done anything "bad" in life. Have you ever hurt another's feelings by saying something bad about them. Never got into a fight at any time in your life? Because, if you have done either of these things, then you didn't have your actions in check on account of another humans life. You just think you would be "good" if there weren't any consequences to keep you in check.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:56 am to AUveritas
quote:
According to who?
According to anyone with a partially functioning brain. You think you are outsmarting me, but you are just coming across as a mindless twit who needs an authority figure to tell him what to do at all times.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 11:58 am to Lg
quote:
You just think you would be "good" if there weren't any consequences to keep you in check.
I would not go steal, rape, or murder people. That more says that you are an awful human being if you think you would do so if you didn’t believe in God. If this is the case, then I think you’re a danger to society and should be locked away immediately for yours and others protection.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:00 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
According to anyone with a partially functioning brain. You think you are outsmarting me, but you are just coming across as a mindless twit who needs an authority figure to tell him what to do at all times.
The fact that you can't answer the question and are reduced to ad hominem attacks prove you think differently. It's both amusing and a little sad, honestly.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:01 pm to bayoumuscle21
quote:
The year that prayer was removed from school was 1962
so you want teachers personal religious beliefs being forced onto kids?
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:04 pm to AUveritas
quote:
The fact that you can't answer the question
He did answer the question.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:05 pm to AUveritas
quote:
The fact that you can't answer the question and are reduced to ad hominem attacks prove you think differently. It's both amusing and a little sad, honestly.
There is objective reality in what is good or bad for us as a species. If we didn’t, we’d never get out of the cave and would still be killing each other like mindless savages. Trade and civility have led to longer lives, people treating each other better, and positive reenforcement. What societies have short lives, are poor as shite, and have terrible human rights atrocities: evil countries. This is objective, and I’ve heard your stupid argument 15,000 times, and you’re wrong.
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:05 pm to Lg
quote:
I do not believe this at all. Reason being, you probably had parents that taught you "right" from "wrong". "Good" and "bad".
The first sentence is not mutually exclusive from the second. yes...I was taught the "right" way to behave, but I've amended that over the years in various ways. As an adult, what I've come to see is that it's clearly a abetter situation for all when we treat other as we'd like to be treated. I don't rape others because I understand that through my actions I'd be hurting another person. Same with murder. But the underlying concept is that I understand that my actions have consequences and there are certain things I avoid doing so as not to harm others.
quote:
So, what you are saying, is you have never done anything "bad" in life.
No...I said I don't rape or murder. Your straw man is of your own making.
quote:
Have you ever hurt another's feelings by saying something bad about them.
Sure...though it's actually very rare.
quote:
Never got into a fight at any time in your life?
A fight? Like fist fight? Nope...which is odd considering all the contact sports I played. If by fight you mean argument, sure. Why?
quote:
Because, if you have done either of these things, then you didn't have your actions in check on account of another humans life.
Despite my best intentions, I'm not perfect. But I'm aware of why I do the things I do and I attempt to act on them in that manner.
quote:
You just think you would be "good" if there weren't any consequences to keep you in check.
There ARE consequences. Societal ones, personal ones, professional ones, etc. the fact that I do not think there is any reason to believe there re ETERNAL ONES does not, in any way, mean that I can not act in the best interest of my fellow human beings, and it in no way means I must do so with 100% effectiveness 100% of the time.
I'm not an atheist because I'd be worried about the rules I'd have to live under if I were not. That's silly. I'm an atheist because I am yet unmoved by any argument for the existence of a deity of any kind.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:06 pm to skrayper
quote:
He did answer the question.
"Because I think so and everyone agrees with me unless they're an idiot" isn't an answer. Popular opinion isn't an objective source of morality.
This post was edited on 2/27/18 at 12:07 pm
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:07 pm to AUveritas
quote:
"Because I think so and everyone agrees with me unless they're an idiot" isn't an answer. Popular opinion isn't an objective standard when judging morality.
This pretty much defines religion as a moral compass as well. Except change "an idiot" to "are now going to hell".
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:07 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
I would not go steal, rape, or murder people.
How do you know that? Because momma and daddy told you that was bad? Or did you just come up with on your own? So in essence, your mom and dad are your moral lawgivers. Their influence guided you to who you are today. Same with me until I realized the man is fallible.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:08 pm to jacob4bama
quote:
How can we know a concept predates organized religion. Organized Religion goes back as far as human record.
Because human beings are societal creatures, as were the predecessors.
Posted on 2/27/18 at 12:08 pm to OMLandshark
quote:
There is objective reality in what is good or bad for us as a species.
We'll address this first: why should I care about what's best for my species when it may not be best for me as an individual?
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