re: Cornell accuser told cops: ‘With 100% confidence I was raped

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None of the men on this board have admitted to being desperate enough to knowingly and willingly have sex with homeless people.

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WTF are you doing? Seriously dude!

WTF does such a dumbass allegation have to do with anything?

Look, I do not agree with Cubs perception that the world has its foot on the neck of American women.

But there is nothing, and I mean NOTHING, about her life justifying your kind of BS post here! So stop.

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NC_Tigah

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I’m going back to an earlier topic/subtopic but I don’t think you ever weighed in on this: all the parties involved in the experiences in the OP were intoxicated. Assume for purposes of this question that some of the young men were sufficiently incapacitated that they could not legally consent. If they don’t believe they were raped, do you think it would still be appropriate for the DA to file charges? Let’s leave out whether or not the young woman was or believes she was raped.

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Look, I do not agree with Cubs perception that the world has its foot on the neck of American women.

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I wouldn’t go that far. But women are generally valued for one reason and it just kind of sucks knowing that. Even considering all the ridiculously petty and hateful crap that many posters tell me on a regular basis, they’d be kissing my arse if they were in the same room with me. It’s just really weird to exist in a world structured like this, alongside people like that.

I spent several hours today with my brother, my sons, my husband… all guys who value me for a multitude of reasons that have nothing to do with sex or appearances. Of course men are capable of valuing their wives, mothers, sisters, daughters, friends, etc as whole people for countless reasons.

Coincidentally, there are pages of posts in this very thread about the strong “biological” impulses and urges men are forced to endure and regulate.

I’m referring to the disproportionate role physical desirability plays in the social value assigned to women, particularly women with whom men don’t already have meaningful personal relationships. And physical desirability is, of course, defined largely by the qualities to which all those male “biological” urges and impulses supposedly respond.

And as I’ve posted countless times over the years, that IS depressing. That’s literally what my post was describing.

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the disproportionate role physical desirability plays in the social value assigned to women

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Just stop. It’s common knowledge nowadays that most women are looking for men 6’ tall with a six figure income. It goes both ways.

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Men here routinely become personally hostile over inconsequential political disagreements.

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Would you like for me to post as many examples as you would like of women becoming personally hostile over political disagreements?

I can.

In one trip to YouTube. Hell, I can do it with one search term. "Abortion."

In fact, I can probably find examples where women resort to actual violence over it. On camera.

And if you're going to say that that doesn't prove anything, then you can't have it both ways and also claim that what gets posted on this board proves anything.

EDIT: This is an incomplete thought, I admit, as what you are challenging is the idea that men have superior emotional control, not that women don't also lose emotional control, so I'll add some things.

The difference IMO is more so with respect to expectations. Women are given far more permission in society to express a much wider range of emotions in a much wider context than men. This is well documented in the research I referred to earlier.

In fact, the context that you identified—that of men engaging in emotional debate/competition—is practically the only context that IS widely considered acceptable for men in wider society.

Women are allowed to express just about any emotion in just about any context.

And this is institutional, not just social. This is why women get much shorter prison sentences for the same crimes. It's why even though domestic violence happens pretty equally among the genders, women are only arrested 35% of the time instead of close to 50%. It's why if men and women are at a party and a man walks up to a woman without permission and begins to rub her shoulders and the touching is unwanted, it's regarded as an actual sexual assault—or at the least, sexual harassment—whereas if the roles are reversed, no one expects the man to claim the same and authorities are much more likely to dismiss the claim as representing something that should be a formal charge.

This is where I think it bears repeating your actual claim. Because I think you're stating one thing but meaning something else.

Your claim is that SOCIETY has normalized reducing women to sexual objects. If it's normalized it, that means it used to be considered abnormal, but institutional pressure has made it normal to people.

The exact opposite is what has happened.

The easily observable fact is that it used to be more normal to people for women to be treated that way and now it is much less normal, and not just much less normal socially, but much more likely to carry legal consequences.

What you mean by your claim is simply that it still happens. That it hasn't been completely eradicated.

Sure it hasn't. It never will be completely eradicated. It's unrealistic to think it will or that it can. And that's where I pointed out the thinking pattern inherent in the left in which the left equates "it's not perfect" with "it's an epidemic of catastrophic proportions and it's not getting any better...in fact, it's getting worse!"

This is how we end up with people who truly think that institutional racism is no better than it was in 1950. That's objectively an absurd claim, but it's fairly popular.

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I’m referring to the disproportionate role physical desirability plays in the social value assigned to women, particularly women with whom men don’t already have meaningful personal relationships.

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Without attraction, we are just a collection of lonely souls passing each other on the sidewalk. Attraction often brings us together initially. Components of attraction generally differ by gender (strength, confidence, gentility vs physical beauty). Elements of that initial attraction are less relevant as a relationship blossoms. That is true of personal as well as collegial relationships.

Over my career I've worked extensively with women. The "disproportionate role" in that is whether they are good at what they do. I would be stunned if that were not the identical attitude of men in your workplace. You really come at this like a POC constantly seeing racism where there is none.

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That is not the behavior of someone who thought she'd been raped.

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“Not behaving like you been raped is the first and most obvious sign you’ve been raped.”

-women

I’m not actually joking. I’ve seem numerous women say something very similar, although it’s baked into some psychobabble regarding “suppressed trauma”.

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Are you under the misconception that society gushes over men constantly? Sure you have the 1 in a million star athlete, but where are you getting this idea that men magically command more respect/value than women?

We have a similar standard. It's what we can provide. You think some unemployed broke arse 35 year old gets the red carpet from society just because he has a penis?

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The depressing part I’m referencing is that attractive people can also possess all the qualities we otherwise claim to value in people. Someone doesn’t have to be unattractive to be funny, curious, charismatic, thoughtful, intelligent or accomplished.

My point isn’t that men are automatically valued while women aren’t. It’s that a woman can possess all of those qualities and still have her physical desirability disproportionately determine how she is perceived and valued, particularly by people who don’t know her personally. Maybe this applies to men, too, and I’m just more sensitive to the female experience.