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re: Conspiracy to Perform Lawful Act
Posted on 12/12/18 at 7:50 pm to AggieHank86
Posted on 12/12/18 at 7:50 pm to AggieHank86
My thoughts are that trying to go for campaign finance violations is desperate and will fail miserably.
0
Posted on 12/12/18 at 8:44 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
For purposes of THIS discussion, we are making to assumptions. First, we ASSUME (for purposes of discussion) that Trump absolutely COULD have made this payment outside the context of a contested federal election. Second, we ASSUME (again, for purposes of discussion) that Cohen‘s actions would have been illegal absence Trump‘s involvement,
Under those circumstances, could Trump face criminal exposure for conspiracy?
This board really needs a "tag" function. I almost didn't read this thread at all
Let me say upfront that I have found the Trump indictment circus to be almost painfully boring, so I haven't followed it more than incidentally. So, with that said, please explain in detail what the action is, why it would have been legal for Trump, and why it would have been illegal for Cohen, with or without Trump's involvement.
Attempts/conspiracies/incitements are messy, but I'll do what I can to untangle it.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 8:49 pm to AggieHank86
As I understand it...
The question is not whether paying strippers and playboy girls to remain silent is illegal.
The Federal Election issue is about the source of the payments made.
Lying to investigators or to Congress is another issue.
The question is not whether paying strippers and playboy girls to remain silent is illegal.
The Federal Election issue is about the source of the payments made.
Lying to investigators or to Congress is another issue.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:08 pm to AggieHank86
52 USC Subtitle III : Federal Campaign Finance
Written by and intended for attorneys. Anyone serving in that capacity for a presidential candidate must know these are the rules to be followed and must follow them in their actions on behalf of the candidate.
Interpreting thousands of pages of this nonsense was Cohen's job as was informing his client of the ramifications of any actions the campaign was taking to violate these laws before those actions were taken.
Do we know if this happened?
Written by and intended for attorneys. Anyone serving in that capacity for a presidential candidate must know these are the rules to be followed and must follow them in their actions on behalf of the candidate.
Interpreting thousands of pages of this nonsense was Cohen's job as was informing his client of the ramifications of any actions the campaign was taking to violate these laws before those actions were taken.
Do we know if this happened?
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:13 pm to Spirit Of Aggieland
quote:
As I understand it...
The question is not whether paying strippers and playboy girls to remain silent is illegal.
The Federal Election issue is about the source of the payments made.
Lying to investigators or to Congress is another issue.
This is how I gathered it too.
1. Paying Playboys out of your own pocket: Cool
2. Having somebody use their money to pay Playboys and then pay them back out of your own pocket: Cool
3. Paying Playboys out of your campaign's pocket: Not Cool
4. Having somebody use their money to pay Playboys and then paying them back out of your campaign's pocket: Not Cool
Lying to the Federales about anything: Not Cool
Trump asked Cohen what his options were, Cohen probably told him Options #3 and #4 are illegal, and Option #1 is going to lose him any support if it is discovered. Then Trump directed him to proceed with Option #2.
It doesn't make things illegal if Trump asked if they can do Option #4, because they didn't follow through with it. This would be akin to me asking you "Can I dump my oil in the sewer?" and you replying with "No, but you can take it to an auto parts store for disposal"
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:25 pm to Joshjrn
quote:Well, someone else said that you are more of an IP guy than a criminal guy. If so, I apologize for calling you out by name.
Let me say upfront that I have found the Trump indictment circus to be almost painfully boring, so I haven't followed it more than incidentally. So, with that said, please explain in detail what the action is, why it would have been legal for Trump, and why it would have been illegal for Cohen, with or without Trump's involvement.
Attempts/conspiracies/incitements are messy, but I'll do what I can to untangle it.
I am not really focused upon the actual or purported "actions." I was more focused upon the general concept of criminal liability for conspiring to do something which is illegal for the co-conspirator, but legal for the person in question. In other words, "Can I go to jail for helping someone else do something which is a crime for them, but not for me."
I think that our resident Fed answered the question to my satisfaction, but I would love to hear your thought as well.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:29 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Civil litigation. Lots of family law.
Talk about Fake News
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:33 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
Well, someone else said that you are more of an IP guy than a criminal guy. If so, I apologize for calling you out by name.
Different Josh. I exclusively do criminal defense work.
quote:
"Can I go to jail for helping someone else do something which is a crime for them, but not for me."
Yes, but it's usually not under a conspiracy doctrine. I'm too tired to go pore through federal law, but this would be applicable in Louisiana:
LA RS 14:28 - Inciting a Felony
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:33 pm to antibarner
quote:
Here's a question. Should Stormy,Karen, their attorneys, and anyone associated with said act not be in jail for extortion and or blackmail?
Been wondering that myself.
When were the original NDAs agreed to?? I was under the assumption that they were executed far in advance of the primaries. And the noise during the election season was their effort to get out of the NDAs execute earlier.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:42 pm to Joshjrn
quote:So I DID consult the correct consulting expert. OUTSTANDING.
I exclusively do criminal defense work.
Long day for you, too, apparently. Get some rest. Thanks for chiming in.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 9:55 pm to Nguyener
quote:
Holy shite. You're a lawyer who is asking if conspiracy to perform a lawful act is something that can be criminally prosecuted?
He's as much of a lawyer as he is a libertarian.
Posted on 12/12/18 at 10:05 pm to AggieHank86
quote:
So I DID consult the correct consulting expert. OUTSTANDING.
Long day for you, too, apparently. Get some rest. Thanks for chiming in.
Anytime
Posted on 12/12/18 at 10:15 pm to AggieHank86
quote:Honestly, it's why many of us, who've been here for near a decade or more don't participate as much as we once did. I chime in here or there, and I like to kid around, but posters like, for example, Jjdoc, who flames and shite-post constantly. He will tuck tail and run from his own threads if he gets called out successfully. He's a prolific poster who is quick to belittle posters and throw out ad hominens instead of ehgage in reasonable discussion. Rex is a liberal poster, who will never change his mind, and goes to extremes of illogical argument. But, he has ocassional moments of lucidity.
Many posters could learn a lesson from you. Far too many of them automatically react with rancor towards anyone they perceive is holding views leftward of the main stream for this forum.
The knee jerk posters on here rarely drop their guard and allow themselves to admit to being incorrect or to consider any alternative views. I may be conservative, but as someone who works in sales, I know that listening well is the key critical component of successful selling. So I have found that on many times, if a thread contains some logic and intelligence alternative to my own position on a subject, I have changed my mind on a position.
But those types of discussions, of which there were many in times past, seem to be few and far between now. This place has become a desert for intelligent debate compared to what it used to be.
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