re: Conservatism doesn’t always equal Christianity

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I have zero interest in playing this game here anymore. For whatever reason, many of the religious folks here seem hellbent on trying to run out those on the right who happen to not adhere to their same religious beliefs.

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Nobody's trying to run anybody off. YOU made the claim that your values are based on logic, the unspoken implication being that a Christian's values are based on something other than logic, like the superstitions of a bunch of Bronze Age goat herders.

All I'm trying to do is get you to recognize that you can't get moral values from logic. And if you agree politically with Christians you need to understand that, because a good chunk of the country has been led to believe that if a belief comes from the Bible it doesn't matter what the voters say, the courts should strike it down. At the working level moral beliefs are subjective. Yours, mine, everybody's.

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First, I think you're misunderstanding what atheism is. It's just a way to describe my lack of belief in gods.

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Atheism is the assertion that god does not exist. If you simply have a lack of belief, you're agnostic.

Many atheists dishonestly try to hide their beliefs behind this sort of rubbish. Your response is one of many I've seen that say the same thing, and hide beliefs behind this vague veil of "I'm an atheist, and I don't have any beliefs to defend".

It's BS.

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When you are not affirmatively trying to be a smartass, you provide pretty decent objective anslysis.

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Why, thanks, Aggie Hank. I admit, most of the time, I'm just an asshoe. Which, as God dictates is driven further and further into my skull each time I think I'm being a better person. He has His way of reminding us that we're not perfect. I admit. I'm far from any common notion of perfection.

But, I have read a few books :)

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He stated that the left could make an argument that open immigration is Biblical and taught by Jesus.

People asked where? And the things he pointed out pertained to the individual Christian, not Governments.

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I addressed this, and further discussion is warranted. Because it's people who aren't Christian at all in large part who will argue that Christians should accept illegal immigration because the people fleeing their countries are suffering. That's an emotional argument, not an argument based on any scriptural analysis or logical basis. It's the typical appeal to emotion fallacy liberals use to fool stupid people. In the end, as it turns out, their arguments are false dichotomies that boil down to "you're either a Christian and support taking care of illegal immigrants, or you're a racist" or some variant thereof. This is hogwash. Even some churches have fallen for this perverse line of reasoning.

A Christian can reject this with a clear conscience. Because it is shallow thinking. That wasn't the OP's only issue, it was, if I remember correctly, an example of one issue.

Why not argue that Christians should be in favor of the minimum wage, or providing free needles to heroin addicts, or acquiescing to gay marriage or recognition of mentally ill transgendered people's "right" to invade women's sport as well?

Once you water down Christianity to that point, there's no policy position it won't support from the left.

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you'll find few if any of the new age "progressive Christians" identifying as what I would define as conservative.

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Agreed

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Why not?

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I think he'd agree that you certainly can.

You just can't claim that your logical morality is superior to any other morality.

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I addressed this, and further discussion is warranted. Because it's people who aren't Christian at all in large part who will argue that Christians should accept illegal immigration because the people fleeing their countries are suffering. That's an emotional argument, not an argument based on any scriptural analysis or logical basis. It's the typical appeal to emotion fallacy liberals use to fool stupid people. In the end, as it turns out, their arguments are false dichotomies that boil down to "you're either a Christian and support taking care of illegal immigrants, or you're a racist" or some variant thereof. This is hogwash. Even some churches have fallen for this perverse line of reasoning.

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Truth. They are using one's personal Faith against them by relating to a topic in the Bibal that does not pertain to government at all.

It is to make you question your belief and accept the cause they are presenting.

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A Christian can reject this with a clear conscience. Because it is shallow thinking. That wasn't the OP's only issue, it was, if I remember correctly, an example of one issue.

Why not argue that Christians should be in favor of the minimum wage, or providing free needles to heroin addicts, or acquiescing to gay marriage or recognition of mentally ill transgendered people's "right" to invade women's sport as well?

Once you water down Christianity to that point, there's no policy position it won't support from the left.

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This is correct too.


On the idea that conservatism does not align with the teachings, I disagree. I think there is my duty as a Christian and the Government's duty to it's people.

But.... does scripture teach that we should be willing to fight to be free? Our should we only rely on non-violent political means to achieve it?
Another way of looking at it is, was the American Revolution and/or the Civil War a righteous armed conflict?
I think freedom must be, and should be, obtained and protected with the lives of those who seek it.

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You just can't claim that your logical morality is superior to any other morality.

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I wouldn’t.

I’d even go as far as claiming given the choice, I rather live in a place where everyone lives by what we think of as Christian morals and values than a bunch of atheists and agnostics(like myself) and their perceived logical morals.

But, that doesn’t mean it takes belief in God and understanding of the Bible to nail down a fantastic set of morals.

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Already asked and answered, but feel free to try. People have only been trying to do it for thousands of years, but maybe you'll have more luck.

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Indeed you can. Read Aquinas.

You simply haven't read enough.

As an example of how this works under Scholastic logic... is it permissible to drink alcohol?

The answer might be something along the lines of "God intended humans to use their intellect to guide their moral decisions, the highest moral decision being to glorify God. As a human, as opposed to a cow, this entail using the logical faculty of reason to discern right from wrong. Since alcohol inhibits the logical faculties, it indeed is a sin in excess.

Saying that there is no logical basis for morality, then pretending that you have a correct moral scheme is a copout of the worst kind.