- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Coaching Changes
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: China is currently outpacing the US in nearly all new industries
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:41 am to longtooth
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:41 am to longtooth
quote:
China imports everything from its technical knowledge, intellectual property, food and energy.
Intellectual theft was common in the early days of the Industrial Revolution in Europe. Countries stole from each other to bootstrap their industry. It’s possible that the Chinese may have trouble transitioning, they may also be just fine.
I think their biggest problem may be the level of fraud in society.
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 11:42 am
0
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:45 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Do you dispute that we just spent tens of billions retooling factories for our auto makers?
Did we hand them cash? Did we give them a loan? Etc. you have to understand this, the co-invest relationship etc if you want to get the full picture.
We mostly support these industries through tax credits and loans under sofr.
The Chinese hand them cash, give them land, deregulate and turn a blind eye to whatever they want to do. It’s very different.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:49 am to RaoulDuke504
quote:
-Surpassing us in AI, China just released a new AI better than chapterGPT that cost 6 million to make.
The new model is impressive, but, if you believe their story that they did it as a hobby for 6 million you are either a Chinese shill or too stupid to talk with.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:49 am to billjamin
quote:in a way, yes. We used taxpayer dollars to give grants for companies to convert factories for EV mfg.
Did we hand them cash
We also handed customers cash to buy them.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:52 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
Do you dispute that we just spent tens of billions retooling factories for our auto makers?
Again, this is not nearly the level that China does.
China has a much more unified pipeline of resources, it's not an open market.
Deepseek is a perfect example.
At least 90% of the costs were Direct Government. If that 6 Million price factor just represents the non governmental cost.
And that would still mean they were the most efficient pre training per token of all time.
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 11:58 am
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:57 am to Narax
quote:
Again, this is not nearly the level that China does.
What does China spend in it's 100 something EV companies?
Break it down per company and I'll bet there is little difference.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 11:59 am to RogerTheShrubber
quote:This isn’t an equivalence. I’ve worked on a couple of heavy industry projects built in China. The interaction, facilitation (both good and bad) by the government in China is nothing like it is here.
Do you dispute that we just spent tens of billions retooling factories for our auto makers?
We had to do things that are trivially automated or done with machines here by hand, because the fab yard had mandates to hire more workers.
Their economy is one giant ball of Keynesian stimulus that only survives because they have cash coming in from outside, their currency doesn’t float, and they have more manual labor than they know what to do with.
There is zero reason we should emulate them. Hell, they have trying to emulate us for four decades.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:00 pm to RaoulDuke504
Most of those are useless money pits with little real value
Nobody wants EVs
Renewable energy is inefficient
We will end up having better AI than China, it’s a relatively new industry.
A lot of those cities are largely empty and high speed rail isn’t viable outside of the northeast and maybe California/parts of Texas. Where do we need a new mega city? We have cities at all major ports and shipping routes, and have1/3 of Chinas population.
Nobody wants EVs
Renewable energy is inefficient
We will end up having better AI than China, it’s a relatively new industry.
quote:
Killing us in city development, build an industry of high speed trains. Developing several new mega cities every decade. When America hasn’t made a new mega city in a century.
A lot of those cities are largely empty and high speed rail isn’t viable outside of the northeast and maybe California/parts of Texas. Where do we need a new mega city? We have cities at all major ports and shipping routes, and have1/3 of Chinas population.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:00 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
in a way, yes. We used taxpayer dollars to give grants for companies to convert factories for EV mfg.
If this thread still kicking when I get back home and I’m not on my phone I’ll send a more thorough response. But you need to look deeper than just the news headlines. You need to look at the structure, ownership, title flip and stips to qualify. They rarely if ever give money without heavy conditions and payback structures.
quote:
We also handed customers cash to buy them.
Are you referring to the tax credit? Because I don’t consider people getting to keep their own money being handed cash.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:00 pm to RaoulDuke504
quote:
-Beating us in social media, TikTok is the most popular app on the planet
Stopped reading right there.
Like them or not, Facebook touches more people on the planet than any entity in history, including in a percentage basis.
If you have evidence otherwise, let me know.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:07 pm to Taxing Authority
quote:
There is zero reason we should emulate them
No, but we have to be able to compete with them. We're losing that battle.
People have screamed about shitty US corporations and govt interference for years, but still want to cling to the ideal that we are always the best.
China spent roughly 300 billion on the industry over 20 years for well over 100 companies we spent at least 20 billion in 2023 for a handful.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:10 pm to RaoulDuke504
quote:
Surpassing us in AI, China just released a new AI better than chapterGPT that cost 6 million to make.
We don't even know that. Our MIC keeps things very well concealed.
My father and grandfather were involved in the development of what would come to be known as "stealth technology" in the 1970s, and we didn't see that tech until Desert Storm.
I guarantee you, we've got some absolute world-ending shite and that should terrify everyone. There's no doubt our government officials have sold us out to China, but it's a game. They gave China the "state-of-the-art, new" tech from 20 years ago.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:12 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
What does China spend in it's 100 something EV companies?
They will never tell you.
As I updated above. Deepseek would need to be in the order of 100x to 1000x more efficient at training to get the costs to what they claim.
WuDao which is 100% Chinese Govt/University research is probably foundational to Deepseek, (we will never know because much of if is hidden, but they share much of the claimed architecture e.g. Sparse Architecture and FP8)
They must have trained on the Chinese Govt's Sunway computers, possibly some new accelerated APU/ASIC centric chipset with FP8 support.
Nvidia only recently introduced FP8 support commercially with the H100s, anything prior to this would have been on very specific HW.
Deepseek has HW recommendations in their paper which implies a non standard chipset was used.
So based on all of that we are in the 90-99% govt cost share.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:13 pm to billjamin
quote:
But you need to look deeper than just the news headlines
Look at this irony
BYD (Warren Buffet is invested) got $3.7 billion, I bet ford, Stellantis and GMC got more.
This post was edited on 1/25/25 at 12:14 pm
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:19 pm to John Barron
quote:
China has created one of the world’s best AI models for only $6 million, as opposed to the billions spent by Facebook, Google, Microsoft etc.
Where's the full context? US companies have built their systems from scratch. Do you really expect us to believe China created an AI system from the ground up to rival chatgpt for only 6 million?
It's always more expensive for the trailblazers. The guys who come in at round 2 after all the groundwork has been laid by American companies naturally don't have to spend as much. They are building off concepts that US companies paid to figure out.
US companies spend more than $6 mil on server farms to run AI, but somehow China not only created better AI but also AI that performs better while using older technology, all for $6 million. This is just too much to believe.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:28 pm to TenWheelsForJesus
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:31 pm to RaoulDuke504
you forgot about egg prices. what are their egg prices.
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:31 pm to RaoulDuke504
Not for long...
Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:32 pm to John Barron
I am seeing some of the same talking points here that Community Notes just debunked. I think part of the problem is some people still consume MSM for their news while others realized it is just Propaganda and have moved on to Twitter.
Loading Twitter/X Embed...
If tweet fails to load, click here.Posted on 1/25/25 at 12:38 pm to RogerTheShrubber
quote:
BYD (Warren Buffet is invested) got $3.7 billion
Every decent analysis of that deal qualifies with an “at least” before it. There’s no way to know and you regurgitating it without understanding how they do this is proof that Chinese propaganda works.
Page 5 of 8
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News