re: Catholics in America have fallen

quote:

---

But it's not a distinction that we can ALWAYS act on.

---

It is most certainly a distinction I would expect the One, True, Catholic Church to ALWAYS act upon.

quote:

---

It is most certainly a distinction I would expect the One, True, Catholic Church to ALWAYS act upon.

---

You shouldn't turn away every person struggling with mortal sin and/or you also can't weirdly validate that someone "went to confession, honestly repented, etc." before doing like Confirmation. You expect them to do inquiries now prior to confirmation? and you think every heterosexual person who gets confirmed isn't having pre-marital sex or masturbating? (They should be, but how do you validate that?)

There's no clean way to do this. It's an impossible task. That's what i mean.

You put the rules in place, you open the doors, you urge people to do these things.... and you let God work.

I'm extremely conservative on my Catholic stance, but there is no reasonable way to police mortal sins as gates to some of the sacraments. Eucharist included.

quote:

---

You put the rules in place, you open the doors, you urge people to do these things.... and you let God work.

---

Maybe Presbyterians are different... but when the elders are aware of unrepentant sin, there is a process to deal with it. Any unrepentant sin.

A man, married to another man, is quite obviously living in unrepentant sin. There is no "maybe" or call for guesswork.

quote:

---

Maybe Presbyterians are different... but when the elders are aware of unrepentant sin, there is a process to deal with it. Any unrepentant sin.

A man, married to another man, is quite obviously living in unrepentant sin. There is no "maybe" or call for guesswork.

---

Definitely complicates it, I'll admit. But from the church's perspective, they aren't "married," anyways.


BUT, like I said before - this is DEFINITELY more of a sin for the leaders, really. They create this atmosphere. They make this statement.

quote:

---

Definitely complicates it, I'll admit. But from the church's perspective, they aren't "married," anyways.

---

Whether they are truly married in the eyes of God is not really the issue. If they consider themselves to be married, they are admitting that they are in an ongoing (unrepentant) homosexual relationship. Homosexuality is sinful, and if they are not repenting of that relationship, then they should be under discipline as members of the church, or not admitted to the church in the first place, if they aren't already members.

quote:

---

Homosexuality is sinful, and if they are not repenting of that relationship, then they should be under discipline as members of the church,

---

Yeah, no Eucharist for them is punishment.

quote:

---

or not admitted to the church in the first place, if they aren't already members.

---

I was not formally able to enter the Church (i.e. confirmation) until my marriage was convalidated by the parish.

There are rules about this stuff in place, but most of the liberal dioceses have these "interpretation" issues.

quote:

---

The good news is that, as someone else pointed out above, the younger clergy are becoming increasingly more conservative. This includes the Jesuits and I know this because my nephew is a Jesuit. The Martins of this world are on their way out, they just don't know it yet.

---

oh yeah 100% - and they know it which is why they do shite like this.

quote:

---

Yeah, no Eucharist for them is punishment.

---

Suspension from the table is a serious punishment, yes, but if such gross sin continues without repentance, there must be excommunication.

quote:

---

I was not formally able to enter the Church (i.e. confirmation) until my marriage was convalidated by the parish.

There are rules about this stuff in place, but most of the liberal dioceses have these "interpretation" issues.

---

It seems like the RCC has spent its entire history in clarifying their own clarifications, which is one of the reasons they present for being necessary (since Christians can't interpret the Bible on their own, because it lacks clarity).

I would like the RCC to actually be clear about what it teaches so that even its officers and leaders know it, and hold everyone accountable to what is clear through discipline. Otherwise she loses all credibility in criticizing Protestantism for divisions. What good is unity, after all, if it's only a fake unity?

quote:

---

Yes, buutttt.....

Do you know if he did or did go to confession and honestly repent?

Look, we can make assumptions, but unfortunately you can't actually act on them. (And look, I agree with you, there's like a 99% chance this dude did not go to confession, or if he did, probably has done something in the last 24 hours that is right back at mortal sin).

But that's not a distinction we can act or rule on unfortunately. That's not our place.

---

Look I get what your saying but this particular case in not a good one to support what you're getting at.

Doesn't matter if he whet to confession and made a good confession he's married to a man (by their own admission) and living in a sinful relationship, a mortally sinful relationship.

Priest absolutely have a right and duty to discern these things and consult their superiors and refuse if the situation is as they claim and they believe that they are in mortal sin.

A lot do not do that and it's a shame because it brings scandal on the church. This has come about by design over the last 100 years by people who do not have the churches best interest at hand. In fact they purposefully enter the seminary to bring about the destruction of the church. Its a serious problem within the church but it does not define the church. Modernism may win in the short term but Christ church will not be over taken.