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Started By
Message
re: Can we have an honest conversation about Covid and Vaccines
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:35 pm to burger bearcat
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:35 pm to burger bearcat
Good OP
The posts that followed were a shitshow, as expected
The posts that followed were a shitshow, as expected
0
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:36 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Lousy eggheads. What do yall know?
Lol. I'm getting an MD/Ph.D in Molecular Bio/Genetics. I've been repeating the same general points with the molecular emphasis for quite a while.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:40 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Lousy eggheads. What do yall know?
About as much as a criminal defense attorney knows on the subject of criminal defense when it comes to the board.....apparently nothing. Tis the unfortunate state of things.
But I will relent in this situation and defer the future doctor. This would probably be one of only 10 such occasions in the history of this board.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 8:41 pm
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:44 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:Well I saw something on Facebook so…
I'm getting an MD/Ph.D in Molecular Bio/Genetics. I've been repeating the same general points with the molecular emphasis for quite a while.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:45 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Lol. I'm getting an MD/Ph.D in Molecular Bio/Genetics.
Then why would you call it a "defense mechanism", as if the virus has agency and is mutating to protect itself?
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:47 pm to Big Scrub TX
quote:
Lousy eggheads. What do yall know?
Certainly not communication skills, which have regressed significantly, as I'm inundated with jargon all the time. A patient called me robotic the other day, and I briefly took it as a compliment.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:54 pm to Flats
quote:
Then why would you call it a "defense mechanism", as if the virus has agency and is mutating to protect itself?
Because it happens regardless of environment in preparation for immune and environmental response, not directly reacting to an immune response, if that makes sense. I didn't mean to commit the pathetic fallacy, but rather to point out that a morphological characteristic, in this case the lack of proofreading, means that certain RNA viruses (of those species with less antigenic stability) exist as a cloud of genomes rather as a discrete genomic sequence, if that makes sense.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 8:55 pm
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:55 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Tell me where I am wrong: The vaccines are not universally bad. Just the mandating of vaccines. For people over 65, obese, or have immune issues, the vaccine is worth them getting. But no one should be forced to get vaccinated. For people without those conditions, it's probably not a big deal to get the jab, but they should have the option if they want. Vaccines don't seem to stop transmission very well. There is some evidence they may be creating mutations. Vaccines do pose a risk, and have crested averse reactions. These are rare, but thousands of people have died. Long term side effects of the vaccines are still unknown. The only masks that seem to work are N95 masks when worn properly and in certain environments. N95 masks would be appropriate in certain medical settings, being worn as recommended. Cloth and surgical masks being worn by regular people all day at work and the store does not help, and comes with further unintended consequences. Natural immunity is better than the vaccine, and should not be ignored. Zero Covid, is a useless platitude that is not possible. Covid is here to stay because of how it transmits and has reservoirs in animals Covid was a man made virus created in Wuhan China Dr. Fauci provided funding to that lab
I agree with this...ALL of it.
Well said amigo.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 8:57 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Because it happens regardless of environment in preparation for immune and environmental response, not directly reacting to an immune response, if that makes sense.
Yes, but its lack of proof reading could just as easily generate a mutation that makes it weaker, not stronger. It's not a defense mechanism, it's just blindly changing. That may help it, it may hurt it.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 9:01 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
A patient called me robotic the other day, and I briefly took it as a compliment.
I kid. Your expertise has been most appreciated.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 9:03 pm
Posted on 9/13/21 at 9:19 pm to Flats
quote:
Yes, but its lack of proof reading could just as easily generate a mutation that makes it weaker, not stronger. It's not a defense mechanism, it's just blindly changing. That may help it, it may hurt it.
You have to contextualize the environment, because the notion of strength or weakness falls into the same teleology (as in describing things from the perspective of its effects, but I don’t know the exact right word for this) as describing the cloud of genomes as a defense mechanism. In other words what do we mean by weakness at the genomic level? Some of that teleology is a function of language, but characterizing any generation-to-generation change along those lines would be impossible. Even still there are sequences for structures in which a mutation would be non-selective, and thus should be highly conserved generationally, but it is not always the case that those portions are immunologic, though in theory they should be. That should mean that as there is selective pressure, the genomic variety in subsequent generations should be decreased regardless of the generational effects, although we haven't discussed possible recombination, which could aid in genomic diversity in the right environment. It's hard to talk about viral evolution without some perspective of the effects, as your post demonstrates.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 9:23 pm
Posted on 9/13/21 at 10:21 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
You have to contextualize the environment,
I thought you were the person who was just being sort of a dick about inaccurate descriptions. So far you’ve described a virus as having a “defense mechanism” and said that random mutations happen “in preparation for immune and environmental response”, as if the virus is purposefully botching it’s proofreading process because it knows that will be beneficial. Are those accurate descriptions?
Posted on 9/13/21 at 10:49 pm to Flats
quote:
thought you were the person who was just being sort of a dick about inaccurate descriptions
Did you read anything else I wrote?
quote:
So far you’ve described a virus as having a “defense mechanism”
If your teleology is okay, why isn't mine? I wouldn't use it in a paper, but it seems like a boilerplate description in a thread of boilerplate descriptions. I've given long, technical explanations on this board aplenty. I wouldn't use the words 'strong' or 'weak' to describe quasispecies.
quote:
as if the virus is purposefully botching it’s proofreading process because it knows that will be beneficial
The sheer fact that it is a robust feature of viruses of a specific morphology doesn't seem to guide you here is odd, especially considering your verbiage. There's a principle of virology that is directly related to fitness that rests on the mutation rate, but I'll let you, so precise with your words, put it together.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 11:04 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
but it seems like a boilerplate description in a thread of boilerplate descriptions.
Yep, it does. This is your response to one of those boilerplate descriptions.
quote:
The vaccine doesn't cause anything…….:
You were wrong, and not surprisingly, are still wrong.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 11:09 pm to burger bearcat
quote:
Natural immunity is better than the vaccine, and should not be ignored.
I agree. So why not have ANY suggestions at all for immune boosting supplements, increases in excercise, increased sleep, etc.? It’s like the song says “Shots! Shots! Shots! Shots!” And if you played your cards right, you got some cash in your pocket, a Big Mac, and maybe even $1m. It’s all propaganda.
Posted on 9/13/21 at 11:14 pm to Flats
He was. Read the post again and then read my reply.
At this point I'm not sure what you're objecting to. You just don't like my glib response to a glib response, and then you try to take me to task about teleological language while using teleological language, while also saying some stupid stuff.
At this point I'm not sure what you're objecting to. You just don't like my glib response to a glib response, and then you try to take me to task about teleological language while using teleological language, while also saying some stupid stuff.
This post was edited on 9/13/21 at 11:15 pm
Posted on 9/13/21 at 11:18 pm to crazy4lsu
quote:
Certainly not communication skills, which have regressed significantly, as I'm inundated with jargon all the time. A patient called me robotic the other day, and I briefly took it as a compliment.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 12:19 am to wackatimesthree
quote:
Same question. What about retirees, people with disabilities or people with just low IQs.
Not at all. We have to distinguish between people who ended up with diseases through no fault of their own versus those who did.
People with disabilities, retirees or people with low IQs usually did nothing wrong. So I would not be okay rounding up them for extermination.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 12:58 am to burger bearcat
OP is now a Terrorist.
Posted on 9/14/21 at 1:05 am to burger bearcat
quote:
he only masks that seem to work are N95 masks when worn properly
To an extent. Any mask is going to act like a fan for Covid because of the lack of seals on the sides. So while the N95 blocks the mid section, the sides spew gas/particles throughout. Need proof. Try vaping or smoking wearing a mask and watch where the vapor/smoke goes.
Keep in mind Covid particle is 4.7 µm
vape 2.5 µm or less in diameter (PM2.5)
It can't stop a vape pen, it's not stoping covid.
I don't see anything wrong with everything else you said
This post was edited on 9/14/21 at 1:06 am
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