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Started By
Message

Can Someone Explain Something To Me?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 9:59 pm
Posted on 9/8/24 at 9:59 pm
Why is it that people in the south glorify Confederate Generals/Leaders/statues/flags as part of "heritage?"
Before answering, here's a list of statements/concepts that as far as I know, are true statements/concepts. And they are why I do not understand the glorification.
1. Enslaving human beings is antithetical to the Constitution of the US. In spirit if not in letter. Yes, I understand that Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 existed in the constitution at the time.
However, it seems obvious that such a clause was itself not constitutional. It would have been like inserting a clause that said, "Congress shall not prohibit the forceable rape of women as states shall see fit, provided that they are not married or formally engaged to a man who is a US citizen and that a tax may be imposed on each rape not to exceed $5 per occasion."
You can't just put anything in there and claim that because it's in there it's constitutional. It has to be consistent with other constitutional concepts...or at least not violate them.
2. As such, claiming that states could do whatever they wanted with regard to enslaving people is equally invalid. If it's unconstitutional, "states rights" doesn't mean anything. (And before anyone asks or assumes, yes, that goes for abortion too IMO.)
3. Southern states also proved by their own actions that they didn't care about "states rights," and in fact wanted a strong centralized government as long as they controlled it. Here are a couple of links to that effect:
The Southern States Actually Wanted a Dominant Centralized Government
The Truth About States Rights
4. I also am not persuaded by the oft repeated claim that the war was fought over tariffs. Here is an article from the Mises Institute regarding that:
Tariffs Did Not Cause The Civil War
5. The vast majority of the statues and the widespread use of the "Confederate Battle Flag" weren't erected/popularized until the 1950s/1960s when the debate over integration was nearing its peak. Those symbols were not to commemorate "heritage," they were to resist/protest the enforcement of the constitution as ruled by the SCOTUS due to racism.
The only one of those points that I think could be even marginally successfully argued against would be the "Tariff Theory."
So that means that we have a bunch of statues/flags erected to supposedly commemorate people who usurped the constitution of the United States, took up arms against it for purposes few (if anyone) would condone today, and lost. And in reality, it wasn't even that, because very few of then were even put up until the southern states again resisted the enforcement of the Constitution of the United States with regard to integration...so they were put up in the name of racism and in the spirit of common meanness.
Even if the war wasn't fought over slavery (it was...even if you accept the validity of some of the reason being tariffs, that doesn't explain the majority of the motivation and the above article does a good job of explaining why) with the foundational underpinning being racism, the erection of the vast majority of statues and flags was engaged in almost entirely out of racism.
So what is the "heritage" that is being celebrated?
Why do so many southern white people have such a bug up their arse about it?
I was born in Alabama and have never lived north of South Carolina and I've never understood it.
(C&ck-suckers downvote first)
Before answering, here's a list of statements/concepts that as far as I know, are true statements/concepts. And they are why I do not understand the glorification.
1. Enslaving human beings is antithetical to the Constitution of the US. In spirit if not in letter. Yes, I understand that Article 1, Section 9, Clause 1 existed in the constitution at the time.
However, it seems obvious that such a clause was itself not constitutional. It would have been like inserting a clause that said, "Congress shall not prohibit the forceable rape of women as states shall see fit, provided that they are not married or formally engaged to a man who is a US citizen and that a tax may be imposed on each rape not to exceed $5 per occasion."
You can't just put anything in there and claim that because it's in there it's constitutional. It has to be consistent with other constitutional concepts...or at least not violate them.
2. As such, claiming that states could do whatever they wanted with regard to enslaving people is equally invalid. If it's unconstitutional, "states rights" doesn't mean anything. (And before anyone asks or assumes, yes, that goes for abortion too IMO.)
3. Southern states also proved by their own actions that they didn't care about "states rights," and in fact wanted a strong centralized government as long as they controlled it. Here are a couple of links to that effect:
The Southern States Actually Wanted a Dominant Centralized Government
The Truth About States Rights
4. I also am not persuaded by the oft repeated claim that the war was fought over tariffs. Here is an article from the Mises Institute regarding that:
Tariffs Did Not Cause The Civil War
5. The vast majority of the statues and the widespread use of the "Confederate Battle Flag" weren't erected/popularized until the 1950s/1960s when the debate over integration was nearing its peak. Those symbols were not to commemorate "heritage," they were to resist/protest the enforcement of the constitution as ruled by the SCOTUS due to racism.
The only one of those points that I think could be even marginally successfully argued against would be the "Tariff Theory."
So that means that we have a bunch of statues/flags erected to supposedly commemorate people who usurped the constitution of the United States, took up arms against it for purposes few (if anyone) would condone today, and lost. And in reality, it wasn't even that, because very few of then were even put up until the southern states again resisted the enforcement of the Constitution of the United States with regard to integration...so they were put up in the name of racism and in the spirit of common meanness.
Even if the war wasn't fought over slavery (it was...even if you accept the validity of some of the reason being tariffs, that doesn't explain the majority of the motivation and the above article does a good job of explaining why) with the foundational underpinning being racism, the erection of the vast majority of statues and flags was engaged in almost entirely out of racism.
So what is the "heritage" that is being celebrated?
Why do so many southern white people have such a bug up their arse about it?
I was born in Alabama and have never lived north of South Carolina and I've never understood it.
(C&ck-suckers downvote first)
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:03 pm to wackatimesthree
Holy wall of leftist bullshite rationalization. Enjoy the avalanche of downvotes. You worked hard for each one of them. 

Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:05 pm to wackatimesthree
WackyTimesThree.....yes indeed.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:05 pm to wackatimesthree
Your Aderall kicked in during American History. Gratz.
Tell your professor his Birkenstocks are dirty from last weeks Free Palestine protest.
Tell your professor his Birkenstocks are dirty from last weeks Free Palestine protest.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:06 pm to wackatimesthree
This war, and almost all wars, are fought about money and power.
The south, with an agricultural economy, was not happy with continued bullshite from the powers in NY and DC.
Most soldiers in the south didn’t own slaves, and didn’t gaf about slaves.
Most soldiers in the north daf about slaves either.
Once again, as with most wars, “rich man’s war, poor man’s fight”.
As for the statues, yes. They were largely erected during Jim Crow. However, I am a fan of history, knowledge, and acknowledgement of ppl in our history. White washing them and erasing them does our American society no good.
The south, with an agricultural economy, was not happy with continued bullshite from the powers in NY and DC.
Most soldiers in the south didn’t own slaves, and didn’t gaf about slaves.
Most soldiers in the north daf about slaves either.
Once again, as with most wars, “rich man’s war, poor man’s fight”.
As for the statues, yes. They were largely erected during Jim Crow. However, I am a fan of history, knowledge, and acknowledgement of ppl in our history. White washing them and erasing them does our American society no good.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:07 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
Why is it that people in the south glorify Confederate Generals/Leaders/statues/flags as part of "heritage?"
The rebels were fighting a tyrant in Lincoln. Its very American to fight tyranny dickhead.
Read the Emancipation Proclamation carefully and get back to us...see that? Yeah, Lincoln isn't freeing slaves in areas under UNION control. So its all about slavery?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:08 pm to wackatimesthree
Look into "The Lost Cause of the Confederacy".
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:09 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
WackyTimesThree
Name checks out.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:10 pm to wackatimesthree
Read the Bible guy.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:10 pm to cbtullis
quote:
It was fought over states rights you little botch
Then why did representatives in South Carolina and other southern states vehemently object to New York having the state's right to enact a law preventing slave owners from retrieving their runaway slaves who had made it into states that had outlawed slavery?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:12 pm to OysterPoBoy
quote:
Read the Bible guy.
I do.
I haven't seen anything in it about the Confederate States of America, though.
Is that in one of the obscure books like Habakkuk or something?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:13 pm to wackatimesthree
Is it because our (again, I'm southern too) ancestors were losers?
Is that it?
Just being sore losers?
Is that it?
Just being sore losers?
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:15 pm to wackatimesthree
quote:
wackatimesthree

Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:15 pm to wackatimesthree
Sir. This is a Wendy’s
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:15 pm to GoAwayImBaitn
quote:
Read the Emancipation Proclamation carefully and get back to us
I'll investigate the EP if you'll investigate the links I posted above and comment on the specifics of those.
The problem with citing the EP is that it couldn't have been the cause of the war since it took place three years into the war.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:15 pm to wackatimesthree
Why don’t some people know what a woman is? How can you have country with wide open borders? Sometimes life confounds us all.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:16 pm to Purple Spoon
Sorry, but I am not Asian.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:18 pm to Sofaking2
quote:
Why don’t some people know what a woman is?
People know, they just pretend not to because of feminism.
quote:
How can you have country with wide open borders?
You can if you do not extend the right to vote and do not have a welfare state. I don't recommend it, though, no matter what the case is. You will eventually suffer the cancer of "diversity" without assimilation.
Posted on 9/8/24 at 10:18 pm to wackatimesthree
I thought this board had a transexual cocksucker filter. fricking Chicken has some 'splaining to do. 

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