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Started By
Message
re: Baylor University Survey On Religion: 'Almost No Atheists Voted For Trump'
Posted on 9/19/17 at 8:30 am to TigrrrDad
Posted on 9/19/17 at 8:30 am to TigrrrDad
quote:
But a few years ago I joined an atheist social group on the Northshore.
As a fellow traveler, this seems like a bad idea.
Centering a social group around being "anti" seems like a good way to ruin a perfectly nice evening.
0
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:23 am to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:
Also, don't assume. I spent a majority of my early life buying into your mythology.
But now you buy your own?
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:23 am to northshorebamaman
quote:In a way, yes. God made Adam and Eve with perfect bodies and when they sinned, corruption entered the world. It's why cancer exists, why our eyesight degrades over time, and why we get feeble in old age. It's why some children are born with terrible diseases and short lives, and ultimately why our bodies give out and we all die.
I'm not trying to be flip but are you saying people have poor eyesight because of Eve?
On judgment day, the dead will be raised and given new, perfect bodies to experience the afterlife, either in Heaven or Hell.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:30 am to CommoDawg
Agnostic here. Voted form Trump.
Not a huge Trump fan. Hated Hillary. Wanted a libertarian but turns out Johnson was an idiot.
Not a huge Trump fan. Hated Hillary. Wanted a libertarian but turns out Johnson was an idiot.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:46 am to CommoDawg
Agnostic, voted for Trump. Shut your Commie arse up.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 9:57 am to CommoDawg
quote:Yeah, this thread is going just about as I expected
LINK
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:11 am to AUbused
quote:I think the distinction between an atheist and an agnostic is one of semantics. Neither the atheist nor the agnostic believes positively in the existence of God. The atheist is just more sure about it.
This distinction between saying "I believe that there is no god" and "I do not know if there is or is not a God" is a very important one and, in my opinion, is the reason we have both atheist and agnostic.
I consider myself the latter. Atheists tend to favor the religious a lot.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:15 am to roadGator
quote:
Did you get the feeling that some of your group almost had a vendetta against religion and wanted to do almost anything to hurt religious people (not physically)?
I don't know if vendetta is the right word, but it's pretty close. Listening to their stories, many had fricked up childhoods or family problems later in life as a result of their parents' heavy religious beliefs. So some did have a "vendetta" type of attitude. For others, it was just a case of trying to drive out religious intrusion where it doesn't belong (government, schools, etc.).
quote:
Centering a social group around being "anti" seems like a good way to ruin a perfectly nice evening
Initially, it was relieving to be amongst a group of like-minded people. Never having met another openly atheist person, it's refreshing to be in a room of people you can relate to. Actually in most social settings ( e.g. our Christmas party - aka Winter Solstice party), religion didn't come up much, unless it was a new member sharing their history and what brought them to the group. It was more on social media and in their individual lives that some were "militant" - and I kind of had my short phase where I had a similar attitude, but it got old quickly. My attitutude tends to be more like getting in my occasional condescending jokes about religion rather than making my life an anti-religion crusade.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 10:22 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:17 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I think the distinction between an atheist and an agnostic is one of semantics.
It's not a matter of semantics at all, though yes, neither profess a definitive belief in God. Agnostics also don't profess a definitive believe in no God. So do atheists not have the same argument in the inverse? Rabid atheists and rabid theists often have very similar approaches to those who do not share their views in my anecdotal experiences. Both can be judgmental, condescending assholes.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:36 am to ChewyDante
quote:An atheist is someone that lacks belief in the existence of God. An agnostic is also someone who lacks belief in the existence of God. Both the atheist and the agnostic are not convinced that God exists. The difference, then, is the level of certainty in the lack of God's existence. The atheist is certain that God does not exist while the agnostic just isn't sure enough to be dogmatic about it.
It's not a matter of semantics at all, though yes, neither profess a definitive belief in God. Agnostics also don't profess a definitive believe in no God.
quote:Both the theist and the atheist have faith in what they believe about God. With conviction often comes passion, and with passion, zeal. Zeal often leads people to act without concern for others and that can be interpreted as condescension. Both sides need to be more considerate about their audiences and temper their passions with reason.
So do atheists not have the same argument in the inverse? Rabid atheists and rabid theists often have very similar approaches to those who do not share their views in my anecdotal experiences. Both can be judgmental, condescending a-holes.
It's my personal opinion that the atheist is better than the agnostic. Both lack belief in God but the atheist at least knows where they stand. The agnostic is lukewarm, neither being hot nor cold on the issue, and thus often times has no care at all on the topic. They are fine to live their lives in indifference, feigning superiority over both the atheist and the theist because they don't have a horse in the race to cheer for.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:41 am to CommoDawg
Funny that your entire post is doing the exact same thing you accuse another of doing
Posted on 9/19/17 at 10:54 am to FooManChoo
quote:
The atheist is certain that God does not exist while the agnostic just isn't sure enough to be dogmatic about it.
So not semantics, precisely as I said. And you assume that all agnostics have some similar degree of agnosticism, which is incorrect.
quote:
It's my personal opinion that the atheist is better than the agnostic. Both lack belief in God but the atheist at least knows where they stand
Of course it is, because as you said in the previous paragraph:
quote:
Both the theist and the atheist have faith in what they believe about God
You both operate on an unwavering plane of confidence in something that is quite clearly outside the ability of humans to answer unequivocally. You have therefore decided to elevate the characteristic of taking a definitive stance on an issue (i.e. faith that you attributed to atheists as well) absent requisite information to validly conclude such a stance. You therefore criticize agnostics for something that in every other facet of decision making is considered RATIONAL. I'm sure the atheists would take issue with your assertion that they operate on faith, however, as I think they rightly should.
quote:
They are fine to live their lives in indifference, feigning superiority over both the atheist and the theist because they don't have a horse in the race to cheer for.
This is called projection. You are a perfect example of the kind of thinking that makes certain religious persons unbearable to be around.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:38 am to FooManChoo
quote:
Both lack belief in God but the atheist at least knows where they stand.
I know exactly where I stand. I have no reason to believe in Gods existence but I cannot conclusively state that a higher power does not exist. To you its semantic but to me its a matter of not making conclusive statements on matters about which I am not equipped to draw a conclusion. In fact I'd say that, for me, its less semantic and more a cornerstone in the attempt to avoid the traps of dogmatic thinking. One I try to put into practice pretty much everywhere it applies.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 11:41 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:38 am to ChewyDante
quote:Agnosticism is a cop-out for not having conviction. Simply put, agnostics do not believe in the existence of God. They claim it's because there isn't enough proof of God, or that if God exists, He must be unknowable, but those are just reasons for their lack of positive belief in the existence of God.
So not semantics, precisely as I said. And you assume that all agnostics have some similar degree of agnosticism, which is incorrect.
Atheists also lack a belief in God. They have different reasons for it, such as their hatred for the characteristics of the Biblical God, or because they want personal autonomy in their lives, or because they don't see how a God can exist given evil in the world, or because they see scientific discovery at odds with the stories about God they were told as kids.
The semantics I was referring to are the reasons why a person doesn't have a belief in the existence of God and the degree of conviction of those reasons.
quote:You would be right if the only way to "know" God is through natural revelation (studying nature), though I believe even nature proclaims the existence of God. That's why I believe in special revelation, which is God condescending to us feeble humans by revealing information about Himself through direct interaction. The topic then shifts from whether or not we can know about God to whether or not we can trust the claims of special revelation from God.
You both operate on an unwavering plane of confidence in something that is quite clearly outside the ability of humans to answer unequivocally.
quote:To both the atheist and the theist, there is an abundance of evidence and information available to take a rational stance one way or the other on the existence of God. The agnostic doesn't want to engage in that discussion and takes the easy way out by saying that there just isn't enough information to know for sure when the topic, itself, is one of faith.
You have therefore decided to elevate the characteristic of taking a definitive stance on an issue (i.e. faith that you attributed to atheists as well) absent requisite information to validly conclude such a stance. You therefore criticize agnostics for something that in every other facet of decision making is considered RATIONAL.
The difference between this topic and "every other fact of decision making" is the consequences. If God exists as the Bible states, for instance, then whether you don't believe because of a moral issue (like the atheist) or because of intellectual laziness (like the agnostic), unbelief is counted the same. Even if you disregard the fire and brimstone stuff, worldviews can be drastically different and result in drastically different actions depending on whether a person believes in God or not. The agnostic doesn't seem to care about that and therefore thinks believing in God is a non-issue. In that sense, the agnostic is a practical atheist even if they don't consider themselves philosophical atheists.
quote:I know many would, however unless the atheist is omniscient and omnipresent, they cannot know that God doesn't exist; they can only believe that He doesn't exist. Even the atheist has to have some semblance of agnosticism in them even if they don't want to admit it. Therefore, as I said, it boils down to the degree of dogmatism surrounding unbelief that separates the professed atheist from the professed agnostic.
I'm sure the atheists would take issue with your assertion that they operate on faith, however, as I think they rightly should.
quote:I've seen it all the time, even in this thread, where agnostics criticize both theists and atheists for using their certainty of belief to make themselves looks like fools to the agnostics who shake their heads in disbelief (pun intended) at them for being so dogmatic about something they supposedly can't know for sure. It's not projection at all.
This is called projection. You are a perfect example of the kind of thinking that makes certain religious persons unbearable to be around.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 11:52 am
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:49 am to AUbused
quote:Do you, personally, believe that God exists?
I know exactly where I stand. I have no reason to believe in Gods existence but I cannot conclusively state that a higher power does not exist. To you its semantic but to me its a matter of not making conclusive statements on matters about which I am not equipped to draw a conclusion. In fact I'd say that, for me, its less semantic and more a cornerstone in the attempt to avoid the traps of dogmatic thinking.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:56 am to FooManChoo
quote:
I have no reason to believe in Gods existence but I cannot conclusively state that a higher power does not exist
I dont really know how to say it any better than that. I just straight up dont know. Short of some direct experience with the divine I'll likely never know and I'm ok with that.
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:59 am to AUbused
quote:Question was not: "do you know for certain, without a shadow of a doubt, that God exists?"
I dont really know how to say it any better than that. I just straight up dont know. Short of some direct experience with the divine I'll likely never know and I'm ok with that.
Question was: "Do you, personally, believe that God exists?"
Posted on 9/19/17 at 11:59 am to FooManChoo
Holy God, you are full of so much shite it's hard to know where to even begin . You establish LOTS of false premises from which you then draw your invalid conclusions and ever present condescension. Once again, perfect example of what I mentioned earlier.
. You establish LOTS of false premises from which you then draw your invalid conclusions and ever present condescension. Once again, perfect example of what I mentioned earlier. 
Posted on 9/19/17 at 12:01 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Explain why intelligent design of the eye ball would result in so many people being born with poor eyesight.
Sin caused the fall of mankind and it has negatively impacted humanity, both spiritually and physically. Our bodies are prone to weakness and imperfections, like our emotions and intellect. Some people are born in worse shape than others due to the providence of God by means of physical corruption of our bodies as a result of the fall.
I have been a atheist since around age 10 when Sunday school teachers first started trying to fill my head with this nonsense like this.
This post was edited on 9/19/17 at 12:03 pm
Posted on 9/19/17 at 12:09 pm to FooManChoo
Im not even sure how to answer that question. I certainly dont believe in the judeo christian God or Allah etc. I also find it unlikely that there is a singular entity actively directing all affairs but I can't rule it out.
Earlier you used the term "believe positively". I do not believe positively or negatively.
Earlier you used the term "believe positively". I do not believe positively or negatively.
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