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re: Argentina is making South American style socialism look bad.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:10 am to Bjorn Cyborg
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:10 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
DOGE is a nothingburger in the big picture. You could cut all of that spending to $0 and it wouldn't change much. Just not enough money to fix things.
You have to start somewhere.
The idea that doing something like DOGE is a "nothingburger" is silly.
And reforming social security can come later.
Exactly. Dismissing it outright like SFP is doing is f***ing stupid. If DOGE can develop a plan to cut discretionary spending without negatively impacting essential government functions that gives it credibility. Then Trump and/or his successor (hopefully DeSantis) can recreate DOGE after it sunsets and task them with cutting non-discretionary spending and reforming entitlement programs.
quote:
Just keeping us out of the forever wars would solve most of our problems.
It will help but most of our budget problems come from Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid.
1
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:10 am to Flats
quote:
but monetarily it's not driving this bus.
Correct. We're not adding trillions on top of our normal spending anymore like during the Iraq-Afghanistan escapades.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:12 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
That is what DOGE is for.
DOGE is not going to address the big 4 programs I listed. It's going to take aim at the non-military discretionary spending.
To start with. However, I would be willing to ban bet you that if DOGE is successful in cutting discretionary spending and reforming those programs then Trump will recreate it after its sunset date and target entitlements and defense.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:13 am to SlowFlowPro
Saying you don't plan to address social security is not "acting like a democrat"
The president can't do that on his own, anyway, so he just needs to get in office, let DOGE go after some low-hanging fruit, get some wins and build up some political capital.
I'm happy a president is talking about making any cuts to the government. In past years, just talking about not increasing spending was viewed as apocalyptic.
The president can't do that on his own, anyway, so he just needs to get in office, let DOGE go after some low-hanging fruit, get some wins and build up some political capital.
I'm happy a president is talking about making any cuts to the government. In past years, just talking about not increasing spending was viewed as apocalyptic.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:13 am to WeeWee
quote:
If DOGE can develop a plan to cut discretionary spending without negatively impacting essential government functions that gives it credibility.
This is great, but it doesn't actually do anything for the big picture.
The only tranche this could apply to in the big 4 is the military.
SS, Medicare, and Medicare are all welfare programs. They aren't spending big because of bloated employment rolls. The are big spending because redistributing money is their entire function. You can't avoid "negatively impacting" their "essential government functions" in any meaningful way with efficiency, as they're predominantly straight money transfers
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:13 am to WeeWee
quote:
I would be willing to ban bet you that if DOGE is successful in cutting discretionary spending and reforming those programs then Trump will recreate it after its sunset date and target entitlements and defense.
Why would you assume this?
Why not start there, where it actually matters?
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:15 am to Bjorn Cyborg
quote:
Saying you don't plan to address social security is not "acting like a democrat"
It completely is
Republicans historically have sought to address SS/Medicare.
Democrats accuse them of pushing grannies in wheel chair off cliffs because they didn't want either program addressed. This stopped with Trump as he adopted Democrat policies towards the programs. He even attacked RDS on this in the primary directly.
quote:
The president can't do that on his own, anyway, so he just needs to get in office, let DOGE go after some low-hanging fruit,
He can't do this on his own either, really.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:16 am to WeeWee
Javier M. may look a little different, may act a little different, but I think his intentions are good.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:18 am to SDVTiger
Lots of lessons to be learned from Milei and "conservative" fiscal policies.
Are not you someone who constantly disagrees with "conservatives"?
Are not you someone who constantly disagrees with "conservatives"?
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:18 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
I would be willing to ban bet you that if DOGE is successful in cutting discretionary spending and reforming those programs then Trump will recreate it after its sunset date and target entitlements and defense.
Why would you assume this?
Why not start there, where it actually matters?
Because it is the 3rd wheel of American politics. If you are going to touch it you better have a plan and credibility. If DOGE 1.0 is successful then it will DOGE 2.0 the credibility it needs to touch the 3rd rail. Are you so dense as to not understand that, or are you just being a contrarian little biotch?
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Already covered on this page of the thread
You can't win on that platform.
Cutting is the initially painful way to fix spending problems.
Productivity is the happy way to fix spending problems.
Printing is the surreptitious way to fix (not fix) spending problems (that imparts the Cantillon Effect and inflation).
There is another way if you are willing to step outside the thinking of existing monetary paradigm.
This post was edited on 12/11/24 at 9:21 am
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:19 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
DOGE is a nothingburger in the big picture. You could cut all of that spending to $0 and it wouldn't change much. Just not enough money to fix things.
quote:At first, I wasn't sure how effective DOGE would be.
SlowFlowPro
After reading the endorsement above, I am now 100% confident that DOGE will be the catalyst to propel the US into becoming the greatest possible version of itself.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:19 am to frogtown
quote:
Lots of lessons to be learned from Milei and "conservative" fiscal policies.
Are not you someone who constantly disagrees with "conservatives"?
You are correct.
However, I often say he's not a hypocrite because he doesn't pretend to be one. His policy preferences are clear and he's never claimed to be a "conservative". So I'll defend him on this (and just disagree with him on the debt-deficit issue).
The problem is the group who likes to LARP and not hold principles anymore.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:22 am to WeeWee
quote:
Because it is the 3rd wheel of American politics. If you are going to touch it you better have a plan and credibility. I
This has nothing to do with those programs. They're welfare. The incentives and expectations are different.
quote:
If DOGE 1.0 is successful then it will DOGE 2.0 the credibility it needs to touch the 3rd rail.
What credibility?
You need to read Bjorn Cyborg's posts in this thread to see why they're not being addressed. Americans love welfare. It's not politically convenient to attack welfare. The bureaucracy is not welfare. It's a completely different animal in terms of perception and support.
quote:
Are you so dense as to not understand that, or are you just being a contrarian little biotch?
You're OD'ing on hopium and ignoring the reality of the situation (which I am explaining above and have ITT elsewhere).
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:22 am to GumboPot
quote:
You can't win on that platform.
Then don't claim to be anti-DEM or "fiscal conservative" or whatever LARPing exists in this sphere.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:24 am to GusAU
quote:
After reading the endorsement above, I am now 100% confident that DOGE will be the catalyst to propel the US into becoming the greatest possible version of itself.
Then you should educate yourself more in this thread and avoid relying on irrational ad homs.
DOGE is fine, but it's a nothing burger within the context of our debt-deficit issues.
DOGE's problems are going to be in how their recommendations are implemented by the actual admin, but that's for another thread.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:25 am to GumboPot
You guys fell for it again.
SFP makes a comment to rile up the board using purposeful phraseology to appear critical of Trump’s administration.
Rather than using a phrase such as “I hope Trump does this”.
Boom
Gets responses and SFP’s post count goes BRRRR.
SFP then gets that dopamine hit.
Repeat.
SFP makes a comment to rile up the board using purposeful phraseology to appear critical of Trump’s administration.
Rather than using a phrase such as “I hope Trump does this”.
Boom
Gets responses and SFP’s post count goes BRRRR.
SFP then gets that dopamine hit.
Repeat.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:25 am to WeeWee
quote:
This compares to a financial deficit for the same month of 2023 of AR$454 billion, which is equivalent to AR$1.3 trillion pesos adjusted for inflation,”
Holy shite.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Then don't claim to be anti-DEM
MAGA is certainly anti-Dem. I don't think that is even debatable.
quote:
"fiscal conservative"
Has MAGA made the assertion that they are fiscal conservatives? MAGA has made more of the claim, "let's make a good deal" whether that is fiscal conservatism or not.
quote:
whatever LARPing exists in this sphere.
There is no LARPing. MAGA or Trump is just trying to make a good deal for the American people. Whether that falls in the fiscally liberal or fiscal conservative bucket is for you to fret over. No one else cares about the philosophical approach if a good deal is made on behalf of the American people.
Posted on 12/11/24 at 9:28 am to SlowFlowPro
quote:
Because it is the 3rd wheel of American politics. If you are going to touch it you better have a plan and credibility. I
This has nothing to do with those programs. They're welfare. The incentives and expectations are different.
quote:
If DOGE 1.0 is successful then it will DOGE 2.0 the credibility it needs to touch the 3rd rail.
What credibility?
You need to read Bjorn Cyborg's posts in this thread to see why they're not being addressed. Americans love welfare. It's not politically convenient to attack welfare. The bureaucracy is not welfare. It's a completely different animal in terms of perception and support.
Republicans have been trying to cut the entitlements and democrats have been trying to cut defense spending without developing a plan first since I started paying attention to politics around the year 2000. 24 years of saying cut spending on entitlements and defense resulted in no decrease in spending or even a significant slowing of the increase in spending. If DOGE can't work and Americans love welfare then what will work? Continue doing what republicans and democrats have done over the last 24 years? That is insane.
quote:
You're OD'ing on hopium and ignoring the reality of the situation
Contrarian little biotch it is.
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