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re: Are Dems ahead of the curve on corporate taxes as UBI becomes necessary due to AI?
Posted on 2/17/26 at 3:55 pm to RolltidePA
Posted on 2/17/26 at 3:55 pm to RolltidePA
quote:
I don't love the concept of UBI for all the usual reasons. But at this point with the escalation of AI happening so rapidly, we need to explore all outcomes and potential remedies for the workforce that it will displace thoroughly; even ones that we have a considerable bias against.
If the ENTIRE economy is solely based on government wealth re-distribution and management, number one... I don't see how AI subsists. Number two, we're fricked. Consider the lifestyle of your average housing project or section 8 resident. Now make it worse. That's your life on "UBI". Plus, if your existence is solely dependent on the government, it's only a matter of time before you are humanely disposed of to manage numbers.
If AI makes most of humanity obsolete in an economical sense, it won't be long before they are in any other sense.
0
Posted on 2/17/26 at 4:37 pm to St Augustine
Dude, AI ain't shite.
Posted on 2/17/26 at 5:52 pm to stout
The real issue is this: if intelligence becomes abundant, how do humans capture its surplus?
For the last century, the answer was simple. Productivity gains flowed through wages. Machines made workers more productive, companies made more money, workers earned more, and we taxed income along the way. Labor was the distribution channel.
If AI meaningfully weakens that link, then we’re not just arguing about tax rates. We’re arguing about the plumbing of the system.
I’m not convinced we’re there yet. Historically, automation displaces specific jobs but creates new categories. The Industrial Revolution looked catastrophic up close too. The open question is speed. If AI scales faster than labor markets adapt, then yes, taxing wages becomes less effective because wages aren’t where the surplus is concentrating.
At that point, the conversation shifts from “tax and spend” to “where is value actually accumulating?” If output grows while payroll shrinks, you either tax capital, tax output, create a sovereign wealth mechanism, expand wage subsidies, or experiment with some form of income floor. UBI is just one possible distribution mechanism, not the only one.
What I’d push back on is inevitability. UBI might become necessary. Or we might see wage subsidies expand. Or a national AI dividend model. Or markets adjust and this ends up looking more like previous tech cycles than people fear.
The core question is: if AI decouples output from labor, how does society route purchasing power back to humans?
For the last century, the answer was simple. Productivity gains flowed through wages. Machines made workers more productive, companies made more money, workers earned more, and we taxed income along the way. Labor was the distribution channel.
If AI meaningfully weakens that link, then we’re not just arguing about tax rates. We’re arguing about the plumbing of the system.
I’m not convinced we’re there yet. Historically, automation displaces specific jobs but creates new categories. The Industrial Revolution looked catastrophic up close too. The open question is speed. If AI scales faster than labor markets adapt, then yes, taxing wages becomes less effective because wages aren’t where the surplus is concentrating.
At that point, the conversation shifts from “tax and spend” to “where is value actually accumulating?” If output grows while payroll shrinks, you either tax capital, tax output, create a sovereign wealth mechanism, expand wage subsidies, or experiment with some form of income floor. UBI is just one possible distribution mechanism, not the only one.
What I’d push back on is inevitability. UBI might become necessary. Or we might see wage subsidies expand. Or a national AI dividend model. Or markets adjust and this ends up looking more like previous tech cycles than people fear.
The core question is: if AI decouples output from labor, how does society route purchasing power back to humans?
Posted on 2/18/26 at 6:57 am to stout
quote:
My concern at that point is what does it do mentally to an idle society when man is not meant to be idle, but that's a whole other topic.
Bad things. AI will end us one way or another
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:27 am to stout
My biggest worry is having more people with idle time.
Especially violent young men.
Especially violent young men.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:30 am to stout
There is no scenario where we have 80 percent of the population on welfare instead of working and society does not crumble.
If there is no incentive or path to elevating your situation, mail it in.
If there is no incentive or path to elevating your situation, mail it in.
This post was edited on 2/18/26 at 7:41 am
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:33 am to SloaneRanger
quote:
number one priority needs to be expelling the 25 million plus illegal aliens who are camping here. Seriously.
Try 50 million minimum. And on top of that we have another 50 million legal aliens here as Trump admin announced a few months ago. They need to go back too
Posted on 2/18/26 at 7:34 am to stout
quote:
Cheaper goods help, but they don’t fully fix the problem when fewer people are earning income in the first place.
This isn’t really about ideology and should be a bipartisan concern. If income from jobs shrinks and output keeps growing, the way we collect taxes is going to have to change too
Why do we have to do all the adjusting? When the government loses revenue they can make changes just like the rest of us and make do with less.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 8:00 am to stout
Well said
Posted on 2/18/26 at 8:07 am to northshorebamaman
quote:
if AI decouples output from labor, how does society route purchasing power back to humans?
AI productivity gains from automated capital could be distributed as public dividends.
Could tax the output of AI systems or the act of replacing a human worker with a robot to fund social safety nets.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 8:35 am to stout
Like voting and the corrupt Judiciary, the Jury Process is fast becoming dysfunctional. All that is left is for Red areas to acknowledge this and drop the “Justice is blind” principle and respond in kind. Just like Gerrymandering. That is a hard thing for honest people to do. But we did drop nukes on Japanese cities and firebomb Dresden.
Transnational Progressivism nws, it seems to me that there are only two endgame options when the inevitable dysfunction/collapse scenario occurs and the people who hold power rise up to respond. Federal ,State or even Local (‘Warlord’ or ‘Militia’ versions) grassroots organizations.
One is that the Left seizes Military power and implements DEI economic principles via Digital Money (the Biblical prophetic narrative of one not being able to “buy and sell” unless one “takes the mark of the Beast”/Government…and the other being that a necessary Authoritarian Right seizes power and implements policies which protects the productive and responsible Middle Class from the unproductive, irresponsible and violent Underclass. As push comes to shove - and it will - the gloves will come off on both Right and Left according to which holds formal power. If it’s the Right, desperate and violent underclass people will be gladly met with superior violent power and brought to heel or eliminated…and if it’s the Left holding power then the Middle Class will be cut off from their assets via Cancel Culture mechanisms. The above may sound pessimistic and nihilistic but it reflects both the Biblical eschatological narrative and the common sense and factual historical narrative as well.
Voting, Juries and Judges are on the chopping block. As well they should be minus honest reform. “If the salt have no savor…”.
Transnational Progressivism nws, it seems to me that there are only two endgame options when the inevitable dysfunction/collapse scenario occurs and the people who hold power rise up to respond. Federal ,State or even Local (‘Warlord’ or ‘Militia’ versions) grassroots organizations.
One is that the Left seizes Military power and implements DEI economic principles via Digital Money (the Biblical prophetic narrative of one not being able to “buy and sell” unless one “takes the mark of the Beast”/Government…and the other being that a necessary Authoritarian Right seizes power and implements policies which protects the productive and responsible Middle Class from the unproductive, irresponsible and violent Underclass. As push comes to shove - and it will - the gloves will come off on both Right and Left according to which holds formal power. If it’s the Right, desperate and violent underclass people will be gladly met with superior violent power and brought to heel or eliminated…and if it’s the Left holding power then the Middle Class will be cut off from their assets via Cancel Culture mechanisms. The above may sound pessimistic and nihilistic but it reflects both the Biblical eschatological narrative and the common sense and factual historical narrative as well.
Voting, Juries and Judges are on the chopping block. As well they should be minus honest reform. “If the salt have no savor…”.
Posted on 2/18/26 at 10:09 am to stout
Another option worth considering is a Negative Income Tax (NIT) or what some call a Reverse Income Tax. This essentially would function like a guaranteed credit without the worry of disincentives similar to our current system or a UBI system.
- It could replace the current bloated welfare system.
- Provides more support to those below the poverty line than it currently does and would taper gradually, instead of abrupt ends, for those working.
It would need two additional measures at a national level to be viable though (and these aren't going to be necessarily fiscally conservative ideas):
1) A national sales tax (+/-5%)
2) A mandatory catastrophic insurance plan
Combined with a 20% flat tax rate and targeted spending cuts, this would cover windfalls AI may create in jobs and other changes.
Would this ever happen? Highly unlikely. UBI would happen before the government ever decided to actually do something helpful like this.
- It could replace the current bloated welfare system.
- Provides more support to those below the poverty line than it currently does and would taper gradually, instead of abrupt ends, for those working.
It would need two additional measures at a national level to be viable though (and these aren't going to be necessarily fiscally conservative ideas):
1) A national sales tax (+/-5%)
2) A mandatory catastrophic insurance plan
Combined with a 20% flat tax rate and targeted spending cuts, this would cover windfalls AI may create in jobs and other changes.
Would this ever happen? Highly unlikely. UBI would happen before the government ever decided to actually do something helpful like this.
This post was edited on 2/18/26 at 10:11 am
Posted on 2/18/26 at 10:17 am to stout
quote:eh. go into healthcare. AI can't change grammy's bed pan.
UBI becomes necessary due to AI?
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