re: Any takers for a discussion about “Marxian economics”?

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But standardized test scores don't prove that kids can actually think critically, especially not outside of a classroom setting.

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There actually are tests which do just that.

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That is a null set.

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Dude, this is above the intellectual paygrade for this thread ...

Stand down.

/s

If you think I started thread so so I can prove that I'm smarter than... NC_Tigah? LSUinKaty? why are you still posting in this thread?

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There actually are tests which do just that.

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Do you think they are used in public elementary schools in the USA?

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My positions are more in line with Hayek than yours. Maybe you need to read him.

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Wrong. Which proves you've never read him ...

If you want to share what you believe that is in-line with Hayek ... I'm all ears.

Good luck conforming his writing to your collectivist beliefs.

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But you also rely on floating signifiers like "responsible people" and "irresponsible people."

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"responsible people" in this context are people who recognize an obligation and reliably fulfill it.

e.g., I go on to stipulate "I am fully able to responsibly invest my own money" ... "a highly irresponsible person ... drops his loot on bars, babes, and blow. Then as old age and future destitution arrive, his yarn returns to the unfairness of his predicament vs that of others."

"The less responsible or insightful one is, the more likely he/she is to fail within a free system. Those who cannot, or will not think for themselves, benefit from autocrats creating conditions and thoughts for them. Those who lack self responsibility benefit from government conditionally forcing it upon them."

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I read an interesting argument (that actually got me really excited) claiming that the emphasis on "grit" in charter schools is really a way to prepare kids for drudgery

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Isn't that a Saltman premise?

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The upper class kids get to attend schools that foster inquiry, curiosity, debate, critical thinking, etc.

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Suppose I told you that is a product of hierarchical classrooms, often sex segregated. IOW those schools assign classrooms by intellectual capacity. Where textbooks and curriculum are similar, the upper levels move through them more quickly, and then on to other projects. Lower levels move more slowly, with emphasis on repetition. Could that be employed in public school?

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I don't know that there is a standardized way to measure student success. Students aren't standardized. People are different and demonstrate their abilities through different media.

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This is absolutely true, but the primary issue is that there isn't a standardized way of partitioning talent efficiently in large states such that standardized tests can serve as a sieve which directs talents to areas that are both potentially economically beneficial as well as beneficial for society.

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Suppose I told you that is a product of hierarchical classrooms, often sex segregated. IOW those schools assign classrooms by intellectual capacity. Where textbooks and curriculum are similar, the upper levels move through them more quickly, and then on to other projects. Lower levels move more slowly, with emphasis on repetition. Could that be employed in public school?

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the primary issue is that there isn't a standardized way of partitioning talent efficiently in large states such that standardized tests can serve as a sieve which directs talents to areas that are both potentially economically beneficial as well as beneficial for society.

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That is the ticket.

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That is the ticket.

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One thing I think standardized tests 'under-test' that is useful from an economic sense is fine motor skills. A massive amount of brain neural activity is dedicated to the intersection motor coordination and timing. The cerebellum, if I recall, has around 70 billion of the brain's 90 billion neurons, and it controls balance, coordination of movements and muscle tone maintenance, and the cerebrocerebellum has the nonmotor functions of cognition, language, learning and emotions. In addition, the cortical homunculus, the hands are over-represented, and the density of distinct receptors in the fingers suggest their importance in discerning touch, texture, vibration, and stretch. The problem with this notion is that acts like reading are coordinated by I believe the vestibulocerebellum, which calibrates motor neuron commands from the brainstem nuclei of CN III, IV, and VI to coordinate eye movement.

Separating fine motor skills from the motor skills that make cognition, language, and learning possible is very sensitive, although there is a neuroanatomical way of separating them. What I mean to suggest is that the biggest area where standardized tests fail students is in a subset of boys in particular where fine motor movement and coordination are not thought of as a type of intelligence even though they should absolutely be regarded as such. That's one area where the standardized approach to large populations is particularly inefficient, in my view. Your thoughts?