re: Americans on American Exceptionalism

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America was exceptional.

We're still living off that exceptionalism.

Trump did what he could. But, it will be running out pretty soon.

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na despite the bullshite socialism, we are still exceptional

hell we are exceptional just for not going to take other countries. Elon has talked about this, we are the only super power in the history of the world that didnt just invade and take countries. After WW2 we could have done anything we wanted(should have marched to moscow and taken out the Commies, but I disgress) but we didnt and then we spent our own money to help rebuild.

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I'll help you look for cheap flights.

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I'll chip in and upgrade them.

All these idiots who "want" to go elsewhere would have no problem getting airfare if they would stay gone.

Need another 8 yrs of cleaning this shite up

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For the last couple of decades, the teaching is, "if it first you don't succeed, complain about the resulting inequality, and hold the system responsible."

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A culture that increasingly measures success by wealth, fame, and political dominance naturally changes how people interpret failure. When celebrity and status become the primary markers of worth, both personal responsibility and civic responsibility become distorted.

I don't think the average person has actually adopted or benefited from the worldview you're describing. I also don't agree that this has become the dominant lesson the average American is being taught, and I'm curious where you see that message being conveyed.

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Celebrity results from success, as does status, not the other way around.

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Not always. It often results from proximity or lineage.

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We often distill exceptionalism down to Bezos, or Musk, or Jensen Huang. That is not how I view it at all. I view exceptionalism as "breaking the mold." i.e., first in the family to attend college, first to own a business, success at something exceeding expectations. The kind of thing that family, friends, or colleagues ask, "How the heck did you do that?" and the answer is, "I just figured it out," shrug.

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I agree with you, but as a society, we tend to reward people for superficiality rather than innovation or what someone like you would consider exceptionality.

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As Ameri-CANS, we see such things all the time, so we assume our can-do moxie is normal. But, it really isn't. It is a unique American nuance. I could cite piles of examples. Perhaps the attitude stems from a cultural frontier carryover where the only helping hand was the one at the end of your own arm. Regardless, it is a rather American quality.

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I've been reading Rousseau lately and I can't help but wonder if all of our advancement has led to the erosion of these can-do values and our collective sense of civic responsibility.

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Like education?

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Take education rankings with a grain of salt. It’s funny in K-12 we rank between 12-14 but in higher education we are indeed the best. Usually rank 1st.

Lots of stuff to ponder in those numbers.

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often results from proximity or lineage

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"Often," in our country, is literally a 20% precept. Even in Hollywood. Certainly in business, and elsewhere.

However, in Europe your premise holds, as those US numbers nearly flip. The normal path to success/celebrity there is to be born into it.

That is the point, Cubs.

Exceptionalism is foundational to "American ingenuity" over the past 150 years or more. We are talking everything from architecture, to industry, to medicine, to applied science, to economics. How does a young nation like ours, in a 100-150yrs, overtake countries which had been world leaders for a millennium, and do it in all those areas?

Exceptionalism -- Where others tend to accept things as they are, we don't. We search for opportunity with a belief we can find it. We continually search for more creative solutions, and when we find them, we implement them.

The lack of nuance makes these numbers difficult to interpret because the questions collapse several separate beliefs into false binaries.

Take my own view. I believe the United States was founded around some genuinely exceptional political ideals: government by consent, the right to bear arms, individual liberty, constitutional restraints on power, freedom of conscience, and equality before the law. I do not believe Americans are inherently exceptional, that the country is uniquely virtuous, or that our conduct has consistently reflected those ideals. In many cases, including slavery and the displacement and mistreatment of Native Americans, we spectacularly violated them.

So which answer am I supposed to choose? “The US is a unique country that stands for something special” comes closer, but it could place me in the same category as someone who believes America is divinely chosen and therefore justified in virtually anything it does. The alternative says our political system is no better or worse than any other, which I also reject.

My actual position is not available.

The other questions have the same problem. Of course America has made substantial progress in addressing past wrongs, and of course it remains important to discuss its historical failures. Those positions are complementary, not opposing. Likewise, discussing American strengths does not require sanitizing its crimes. In fact, you cannot meaningfully assess the country’s progress without discussing both.

The survey therefore only tells us that most Americans reject the two most absolute negative formulations offered to them. It tells us much less about what they actually mean by American exceptionalism, whether they locate it in our ideals, institutions, historical conduct, national character, or some belief in inherent moral superiority.

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your buddy Powerman believes Iran has the current ability to bring the global economy to its knees.

and you're talking about MAGA people

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Had the D candidate won the last election, I firmly believe that Iran would have achieved very effective nuclear weapons technology, and the means to deliver it anywhere in the world. Personally, I can’t imagine the change to the status quo insofar as national security is concerned, “international security” as well.