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Alternative to Secession - Could state governments simply dissolve?
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:21 am
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:21 am
Secession is a topic that has move in an out of the PT for as long as I can remember, but this question is about a possible alternative.
What if state governments simply dissolved themselves and ceased to exist? The state would have to revert back to territory status, or would it?
I don't see any prohibition in the Constitution and even if there was, Fedgov couldn't force something to exist that needs people to run it, if the people abandon it.
So if Louisiana dissolved and became a territory like Puerto Rico, I suppose people in Louisiana would be exempt from Federal income tax like Puerto Rico.
14
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:23 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Fedgov couldn't force something to exist that needs people to run it,
You want a standing DC army and federal politicians in every state and local office with no elections and no hope?
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:26 am to TrueTiger
You think politicians would willing give away power?
Come on man.
Come on man.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:26 am to Nguyener
quote:
You want a standing DC army and federal politicians in every state and local office with no elections and no hope?
I didn't say that.
But think of the enormous resource drag on Fedgov. The states that were left would come to resent it.
Maybe even let the territories go their own way eventually.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:26 am to TrueTiger
The Feds would be quick to come claim it
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:26 am to TrueTiger
Why dissolve? Every state already has an autonomous governing system in place.
Time to go back to individual nation states with a fed government only there for defense of said states as intended
Time to go back to individual nation states with a fed government only there for defense of said states as intended
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:27 am to TrueTiger
quote:
But think of the enormous resource drag on Fedgov. The states that were left would come to resent it.
Seriously. I have some real estate on the moon to sell you
This post was edited on 5/17/21 at 9:29 am
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:27 am to TrueTiger
Feds would swoop in, take over and you'll lose identity.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:30 am to TrueTiger
Conservatives need to stop thinking about secession.
We need to start thinking about expulsion.
Playing defense and settling for small victories is what has us where we are.
We need to start thinking about expulsion.
Playing defense and settling for small victories is what has us where we are.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:30 am to Nguyener
They would have to spend trillions to run the police, schools, courts, and all the things that states do.
But the main point is to compare the possible advantage of simply quitting to secession and war.
But the main point is to compare the possible advantage of simply quitting to secession and war.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:32 am to TrueTiger
Why would politicians give up their power? They wouldn't.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:47 am to TrueTiger
Dissolve the government, police etc and you’ll have all those idiots from Portland and people like them moving in with the quickness to plunder and set up autonomous zones. You’d have whatever residents that remained through the dissolution at war with the newcomers.
You can not create a power vaccuum right now anywhere in the US, it will be filled immediatey in the absolute worst possible way.
You can not create a power vaccuum right now anywhere in the US, it will be filled immediatey in the absolute worst possible way.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:59 am to olgoi khorkhoi
quote:
You can not create a power vaccuum right now anywhere in the US, it will be filled immediatey in the absolute worst possible way.
Probably.
Let's spice up the hypothetical. Say that in addition to dissolving the state government, the majority of people in the former state's territory renounce their U.S. citizenship.
Would they be treated like illegals at the border?
The U.S. would possibly deport them? To where?
This post was edited on 5/17/21 at 10:03 am
Posted on 5/17/21 at 9:59 am to TrueTiger
quote:we’d simply split between Texas, Arkansas, and Mississippi
So if Louisiana dissolved and became a territory like Puerto Rico, I suppose people in Louisiana would be exempt from Federal income tax like Puerto Rico.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 10:11 am to TrueTiger
Why would we want to remain a territory if we’re trying to get away from the federal government to begin with?
Seems like this would be a huge step back, giving up representation and electoral college votes.
Seems like this would be a huge step back, giving up representation and electoral college votes.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 10:16 am to TerryDawg03
Basically, it is a way to become ungovernable and force FedGov to overextend itself by having to do all of the governing, occupation, and paying for all infrastructure.
The cash flowing into the new territories would be enormous. Just like we did with a defeated Germany and Japan except that we would skip the nasty war part.
Posted on 5/17/21 at 10:18 am to TrueTiger
quote:
Could state governments simply dissolve?
Umm. That would be bad
Posted on 5/17/21 at 10:20 am to HailToTheChiz
quote:
Umm. That would be bad
probably, but we don't know that would be worse
but what could be done about it
make war against who? what?
an unorganized blob of land?
This post was edited on 5/17/21 at 10:23 am
Posted on 5/17/21 at 10:24 am to TrueTiger
I like the thinking outside the box.
The problem is that any state doing so would then lose their representation in Congress (they have only non-voting representation in the House and nothing in the Senate). As bad off as Louisiana is, the vast majority of the state would basically become DC under such a scenario.
Generally speaking, US territories tend to have underdeveloped telecommunications and infrastructures. What we would probably see would be the O&G producing areas (Grand Isle and such) getting a lot of infrastructure attention, some attention to New Orleans (due to the Mississippi River and shipping) but then nothing for the rest of the state.
Without federal dollars helping to fund smaller municipalities you would quickly see various services erode then shut down as the average annual allotment the Dept of Interior gives to territories is ~$2B each. That's not even 10% of what Louisiana normally gets in a given year from the federal government. Things like water, sewage, road/bridge maintenance, etc. would slowly degenerate in the most rural areas first, then spread inward to the more densely populated areas as the mechanisms used to fund them slowly failed without any means of enforcement (state/local taxes).
The problem is that any state doing so would then lose their representation in Congress (they have only non-voting representation in the House and nothing in the Senate). As bad off as Louisiana is, the vast majority of the state would basically become DC under such a scenario.
Generally speaking, US territories tend to have underdeveloped telecommunications and infrastructures. What we would probably see would be the O&G producing areas (Grand Isle and such) getting a lot of infrastructure attention, some attention to New Orleans (due to the Mississippi River and shipping) but then nothing for the rest of the state.
Without federal dollars helping to fund smaller municipalities you would quickly see various services erode then shut down as the average annual allotment the Dept of Interior gives to territories is ~$2B each. That's not even 10% of what Louisiana normally gets in a given year from the federal government. Things like water, sewage, road/bridge maintenance, etc. would slowly degenerate in the most rural areas first, then spread inward to the more densely populated areas as the mechanisms used to fund them slowly failed without any means of enforcement (state/local taxes).
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