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Posted on 8/26/22 at 2:59 pm to FooManChoo
....and he was kind and charitable when compared to John Calvin.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:04 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
prayer is a religious act of worship reserved for God
Prayer is a conversation not act of worship, WORSHIP is an act of WORSHIP.
quote:Says the person reading a bible "corrected" by man not God.
I feel sorry for those who have been deluded into believing a false gospel,
quote:Yes it does and to the 2nd part of this funny you talk about Saints because even the protestant bibles will say the Gospel according to St. Luke, St. Mark, St. Matthew
This passage (vv 1-5) does not demonstrate that intercessory prayers to the dead in Heaven are then given to God. It can mean either that the dead Christians who were martyred for their unity with Christ from chapter 6 are having their petitions of judgment and retribution answered (since immediately following the prayers is judgement), or it could mean that the prayers of all Christians (while alive) are given to God. It's an assumption that Catholics make that "the saints" must be highly exalted Christians who were given a special status by Rome, and thus are more holy and worthy of the Father's ear in Heaven, are the recipients of the prayers of the living and then intercede with God on our behalf.
quote:
Luke 16:22-24 shows that the dead can pray for the living
No it doesn't.
First, this was a parable, which cannot use to contradict clear teachings of mediation.
Second, in the parable, no prayer was offered. The dead speak to each other like the living speak to each other. There is no hint that the living can talk to the dead, or that the dead are even capable of hearing the living under normal circumstances. The rich man wasn't hearing new prayers from his family and interceding for them; he was taking his prior knowledge about his family and talking to Abraham.
It does even if it doesnt follow a set ritual prayer with Dear Lord.
Also way to go trying to say what Jesus is saying here, 2nd what do you think happens when you die, your soul still lives and that soul can pray for others
quote:
How is that reconciled with Trent?
In fact, the Council of Trent condemned anyone who taught that we can save ourselves or who taught even that God helps us do what we could do for ourselves. The Church teaches that we can be saved only by God’s grace.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:07 pm to AubieinNC2009
quote:
This is false, Catholics do works to become more saint like not to be saved . It is to become more Christ like aka Christian.
Correct. Sanctification =/= Justification
And yes, Catholics believe that good works are necessary for sanctification. Not sure how you can argue with that one.
From the Westminster Shorter Catechism:
quote:
Westminster Shorter Catechism: What is sanctification? Sanctification is the work of God’s free grace, where we are renewed in the whole man after the image of God, and enabled more and more to die unto sin, and live unto righteousness.
And more from the Catholic Catechism. Notice the similarities:
quote:
1995 The Holy Spirit is the master of the interior life. By giving birth to the "inner man,"44 justification entails the sanctification of his whole being:
Just as you once yielded your members to impurity and to greater and greater iniquity, so now yield your members to righteousness for sanctification. . . . But now that you have been set free from sin and have become slaves of God, the return you get is sanctification and its end, eternal life.45
quote:
2001 The preparation of man for the reception of grace is already a work of grace. This latter is needed to arouse and sustain our collaboration in justification through faith, and in sanctification through charity. God brings to completion in us what he has begun, "since he who completes his work by cooperating with our will began by working so that we might will it:"50
Indeed we also work, but we are only collaborating with God who works, for his mercy has gone before us. It has gone before us so that we may be healed, and follows us so that once healed, we may be given life; it goes before us so that we may be called, and follows us so that we may be glorified; it goes before us so that we may live devoutly, and follows us so that we may always live with God: for without him we can do nothing.51
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 3:22 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:08 pm to Stexas
quote:The primary text often uses is 2 Tim. 3:16-17. It speaks of that which is God breathed as being sufficient to prepare a man of God (Christian) for "every good work".
Where in the bible does it say you should rely only on the bible?
That which is God breathed is obviously authoritative, and since it comes from God, it must not be superseded by any other authority, for there is no authority above God. Since it speaks of preparing a man of God for every good work, it has to exclude any tradition of man that defines good works that are not listed in the scriptures. The belief in Papal succession, the immaculate conception of Mary, and many other Roman traditions are not taught in the Bible, and therefore belief in them must not be "good works" that the man of God is equipped for.
Then we have the numerous examples where Christ and the Apostles refer to scriptures, not traditions, for authority in teaching. Jesus rebukes Satan's temptations with scripture. Jesus refers back to the scriptures over 100 times, using phrases like "have you not read..." (Matt. 12:3), "have you not read in the law..." (Matt. 12:5), and "have you never read in the scriptures..." (Matt. 21:42), but not referencing tradition as authoritative. In fact, Jesus rebuked the "authoritative" traditions of the Jewish elders because they violated scripture (Mark 7:1-13).
Then we have the Bereans who were praised for not even taking the Apostle's words as scripture unless they were supported by the scriptures at the time (testing all things according to scripture).
We've got the command from Paul to the church in Corinth not to go beyond "what is written" (1 Cor 4:6)
Apollos was praised for his refutation of the Jews, not by tradition, but by the scriptures (Acts 18:24-28)
Timothy was exhorted to publicly read the scriptures, but wasn't told to proclaim separate traditions of the Apostles (1 Tim. 4:13)
Paul, again to the Corinthians, says that everything he writes to them is from the Lord. He doesn't make the same statement about unwritten oral tradition that exists outside of the writings (1 Cor. 14:37)
Lastly, Luke writes to Theophilus his account of the gospel so that he can know for sure what occurred, rather than relying on the oral traditions that had existed (Luke 1:1-4).
There's more that could be said, but the point is that there is ample evidence that the scriptures are the only authoritative rule for Christians, and that doesn't even speak to what the "traditions" were that were mentioned in 2 Thess. 2:15 and 3:6, which were already given to the church at the time of the writing, and were explained in context.
quote:So you, too, believe in the authority of the Church even over the authority of God's Word?
You know the book that the Catholic church assembled?
The Catholic church didn't write the canon, but accepted it for what it was. The canon was the canon even if not everyone agreed with what it was, since it was God breathed. The Church did not create the Bible; it accepted what God created.
quote:Yes, I've read James. Have you read Ephesians or Romans? We are saved by faith alone. Works are merely an evidence that the faith we have is a living, saving faith.
While we're at it, have you read the Epistle of James? It's Faith AND Works.
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 3:08 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:10 pm to EKG
quote:I agree that not all Christians believe alike on all issues. Sin clouds our understanding and perverts the scriptures in our minds. However, this is an issue of salvation, not an argument over the correct color of the carpet in churches. I wouldn't make a big deal about it if it weren't such important.
Few people agree 100% with each other about Christian doctrine and practices. Even those who supposedly follow a strict/literal interpretation of the Bible disagree amongst themselves as to the interpretations behind The Word.
As Christians, rather than calling out others, how about we support all believers and non-believers alike in their journeys/walks?
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:12 pm to DisplacedBuckeye
quote:Yes, that's what I said, but I still don't understand how the scriptures are an additional work.
As soon as you add additional requirements (works) to Christ's work on the cross
Would you take more than 10 seconds to explain what you mean if you really want me to understand?
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:12 pm to FooManChoo
Some of the biggest bastards in history professed to have faith. Henry VIII had faith but was a bastard that killed a wife or two.
Personally, I think faith alone is too easy." I believe in God and my salvation was ensured by his son, Jesus' Supreme sacrifice on the cross...I believe" If your beliefs lead you to being a sonofabitch, cheating your neighbor, being unfaithful to your wife/ husband, committing acts of violence in God or Jesus' name. Are you really saved? Or are you being like a mob boss and merely hedging your bet and hoping that you can ask for forgiveness and absolution on your deathbed as the Reaper comes calling?
I suppose you can since all that would be necessary is to believe. To take it further, Lucifer absolutely believes in God.....and Jesus, correct?
Personally, I think faith alone is too easy." I believe in God and my salvation was ensured by his son, Jesus' Supreme sacrifice on the cross...I believe" If your beliefs lead you to being a sonofabitch, cheating your neighbor, being unfaithful to your wife/ husband, committing acts of violence in God or Jesus' name. Are you really saved? Or are you being like a mob boss and merely hedging your bet and hoping that you can ask for forgiveness and absolution on your deathbed as the Reaper comes calling?
I suppose you can since all that would be necessary is to believe. To take it further, Lucifer absolutely believes in God.....and Jesus, correct?
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:26 pm to FooManChoo
You hijack every thread about religion with anti-Catholic mis-information.
It’s a circular argument. You insist the Catholic Church teaches works are necessary for salvation. However, many Catholics on this board have stated that is not true.
Some examples:
“The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace—completely unmerited by works—that one is saved.
The Church teaches that it’s God’s grace from beginning to end which justifies, sanctifies, and saves us. As Paul explains in Philippians 2:13, “God is the one, who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.”
Notice that Paul’s words presuppose that the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it. This is the second half of the justification equation, and Protestants either miss or ignore it.
James 2:17 reminds us that “faith of itself, if it does not have work, is dead.” In verse 24 James says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” And later: “For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead” (2:26).
The Council of Trent harmonizes the necessity of grace and works: “If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or by the teaching of the Law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema” (Session 6; can. 1).
The Council fathers continued by saying, “If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema” (Session 6: can. 9).
By the way, “let him be anathema” means “let him be excommunicated,” not “let him be cursed to hell.” The phrase was used in conciliar documents in a technical, theological sense, not in the same sense as the word “anathema” is found in Scripture. Don’t let “Bible Christians” throw you for a loop on this one.
So, far from teaching a doctrine of “works righteousness” (that would be Pelagianism, which was condemned at the Council of Carthage in A.D. 418), the Catholic Church teaches the true, biblical doctrine of justification.“
LINK
It’s a circular argument. You insist the Catholic Church teaches works are necessary for salvation. However, many Catholics on this board have stated that is not true.
Some examples:
“The Catholic Church has never taught such a doctrine and, in fact, has constantly condemned the notion that men can earn or merit salvation. Catholic soteriology (salvation theology) is rooted in apostolic Tradition and Scripture and says that it is only by God’s grace—completely unmerited by works—that one is saved.
The Church teaches that it’s God’s grace from beginning to end which justifies, sanctifies, and saves us. As Paul explains in Philippians 2:13, “God is the one, who, for his good purpose, works in you both to desire and to work.”
Notice that Paul’s words presuppose that the faithful Christian is not just desiring to be righteous, but is actively working toward it. This is the second half of the justification equation, and Protestants either miss or ignore it.
James 2:17 reminds us that “faith of itself, if it does not have work, is dead.” In verse 24 James says, “See how a person is justified by works and not by faith alone.” And later: “For just as a body without a spirit is dead, so also faith without works is dead” (2:26).
The Council of Trent harmonizes the necessity of grace and works: “If anyone says that man can be justified before God by his own works, whether done by his own natural powers or by the teaching of the Law, without divine grace through Jesus Christ, let him be anathema” (Session 6; can. 1).
The Council fathers continued by saying, “If anyone says that the sinner is justified by faith alone, meaning that nothing else is required to cooperate in order to obtain the grace of justification and that it is not in any way necessary that he be prepared and disposed by the action of his own will, let him be anathema” (Session 6: can. 9).
By the way, “let him be anathema” means “let him be excommunicated,” not “let him be cursed to hell.” The phrase was used in conciliar documents in a technical, theological sense, not in the same sense as the word “anathema” is found in Scripture. Don’t let “Bible Christians” throw you for a loop on this one.
So, far from teaching a doctrine of “works righteousness” (that would be Pelagianism, which was condemned at the Council of Carthage in A.D. 418), the Catholic Church teaches the true, biblical doctrine of justification.“
LINK
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:26 pm to UGATiger26
quote:I didn't read it that way.
I believe that would be referring to the "dead faith" you explained yourself in your reply to me.
Trent was convened as a response to the Protestant Reformation, which taught that man had no free will (ability to believe the gospel in himself but requires the working of the Spirit in regeneration). I believe this part was referring to the teaching of faith alone as a gift of the Spirit rather than as a result of a free will assenting to the gospel message of its own.
The quote from Trent was saying (in my understanding) that a person is accursed if he says that justification comes by faith alone (from God alone, apart from man's works), and not through the cooperation of man with God through free will.
quote:This speaks to free will vs. total depravity, which was one of the key teachings/arguments of the Reformation.quote:
Here's the "cooperation" that Trent was referring to:
Justification establishes cooperation between God's grace and man's freedom. On man's part it is expressed by the assent of faith to the Word of God, which invites him to conversion, and in the cooperation of charity with the prompting of the Holy Spirit who precedes and preserves his assent:
When God touches man's heart through the illumination of the Holy Spirit, man himself is not inactive while receiving that inspiration, since he could reject it; and yet, without God's grace, he cannot by his own free will move himself toward justice in God's sight.42
Free will assumes an ability by man to believe the gospel, and it turns belief, itself, into a work produced by man that merits salvation. That isn't the teaching of scripture, which teaches than man is dead in sin and must be made alive (or born again) by the Spirit.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:26 pm to hnds2th
“It seems that many non-Catholics in America misunderstand the Catholic doctrine of salvation. They think that the Church teaches salvation by works as if Catholics were trying to earn their way to heaven. This frustrates knowledgeable Catholics because we know that the Church does not teach salvation by our own good works.
We believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them. But it is not true that man plays as important a role as God. God the Father planned our salvation, not man. God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things. And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5). This is beyond our human ability. Still, we must cooperate with God’s grace to find eternal happiness with God. If we don’t, we will be cut off from God forever. In contrast, Semi-Pelagianism is only a weakened form of Pelagianism, which taught that a person could save himself. To be a semi-Pelagian is to believe that we could save ourselves but God just helps us to make it easier.
The Church teaches that only God can save us. If that weren’t true, then Christ died for nothing. All that we do is respond with faith and obedience to God’s offer of grace in Christ. We insist that this is a lifelong commitment that should grow over time. God’s grace grows within us as we trust in God more and follow his commandments. The final outcome of a life of faith and obedience is eternal life with God.
We do believe that works are evidence of true faith, but that is not the only role they play. Works also play a role in our final justification. If we take Paul’s statements about Abraham being justified by faith in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3–4 and put them together with James’s statement about Abraham being justified by his work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21, we rightly conclude that salvation is a process with many points of justification along the path to heaven.
We think that many Christians seriously misread the New Testament when it comes to the assurance of salvation. Though we can’t examine many texts on assurance right now, I can say that 1 John 5:13 has been ripped out of its context in John’s letter. If you examine chapters 4 and 5 of this small letter carefully, you will see that “this” refers to acts of love of neighbor, love of God, holding to orthodox teaching, and so on. In other words, John is not giving a blank check for assurance of heaven. He is giving a conclusion of a long list of indicators by which a person can know he is saved. John agrees with James. Good works give a relative assurance that one is in good standing with God.
I don’t see that the pursuit of holiness in any way takes our trust away from Christ and puts it in ourselves. It seems to me that Hebrews makes it very clear that without holiness “no one will see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14). Why would the author say this? Because God is holy and, if we’re going to live with God forever, we too must be holy. So our entire life should be a pursuit of the holiness that Christ gained for us by his death on the cross. God desires to put this holiness within us, or as Hebrews 12:10 says, “that we may share his holiness.” That is the ultimate rationale behind the Catholic view of salvation: to share in the holiness of God. Nothing less will save us!”
LINK
“The Church understands that we are all sinners in need of a savior (Rom 5:12-21). We are inheritors of original sin and all its consequences, and by actual sin we distance ourselves from God. We can’t save ourselves, but we don’t need to: Jesus Christ has paid the price for our sins. The Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes through Jesus alone (Acts 4:12), since he is the “one mediator between God and man” (1 Tm 2:5-6).
The saving grace won by Jesus is offered as a free gift to us, accessible through repentance, faith, and baptism. We turn away from our sins, we are sorry for them, and we believe in Jesus Christ and the gospel. Repentance shows our willingness to turn from things that keep us from God, and baptism renews us, filling us with the grace necessary to have faith and to live it. This belief is more than just “head knowledge.” Even the demons have that (Jas 2:19). It’s more than just believing you’re saved. Even the Pharisees had that (Jn 5:39). True, saving faith is one lived and exhibited daily: It is “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6, cf. Jas 2:1-26).
Sometimes the Church is accused of teaching “salvation by works,” but this is an empty accusation. This idea has been consistently condemned by the Church. Good works are required by God because he requires obedience to his commands (Mt 6:1-21, 1 Cor 3:8, 13-15) and promises to reward us with eternal life if we obey (Mt 25:34-40, Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10, Jas 1:12). But even our obedience is impossible without God’s grace; even our good works are God’s gift (Rom 5:5, Phil 2:13). This is the real biblical plan of salvation.”
LINK
I can post many, many more documents disputing your claim, but I know it won’t make a difference, because you are dug in on your obsession with the Catholic Church.
A better question might be…why do some Christians support abortion or same-sex marriage, euthanasia? Can I believe in sola fide, but support immoral works and still be saved?
We believe that salvation is a process by which we come closer to God throughout our whole life as we participate in the sacraments and the grace that comes through them. But it is not true that man plays as important a role as God. God the Father planned our salvation, not man. God the Son gained our salvation by his death and resurrection; no one else did these things. And God the Holy Spirit infused the very love of God into our hearts by his presence (cf. Rom. 5:5). This is beyond our human ability. Still, we must cooperate with God’s grace to find eternal happiness with God. If we don’t, we will be cut off from God forever. In contrast, Semi-Pelagianism is only a weakened form of Pelagianism, which taught that a person could save himself. To be a semi-Pelagian is to believe that we could save ourselves but God just helps us to make it easier.
The Church teaches that only God can save us. If that weren’t true, then Christ died for nothing. All that we do is respond with faith and obedience to God’s offer of grace in Christ. We insist that this is a lifelong commitment that should grow over time. God’s grace grows within us as we trust in God more and follow his commandments. The final outcome of a life of faith and obedience is eternal life with God.
We do believe that works are evidence of true faith, but that is not the only role they play. Works also play a role in our final justification. If we take Paul’s statements about Abraham being justified by faith in Galatians 3:6 and Romans 4:3–4 and put them together with James’s statement about Abraham being justified by his work of offering up Isaac in James 2:21, we rightly conclude that salvation is a process with many points of justification along the path to heaven.
We think that many Christians seriously misread the New Testament when it comes to the assurance of salvation. Though we can’t examine many texts on assurance right now, I can say that 1 John 5:13 has been ripped out of its context in John’s letter. If you examine chapters 4 and 5 of this small letter carefully, you will see that “this” refers to acts of love of neighbor, love of God, holding to orthodox teaching, and so on. In other words, John is not giving a blank check for assurance of heaven. He is giving a conclusion of a long list of indicators by which a person can know he is saved. John agrees with James. Good works give a relative assurance that one is in good standing with God.
I don’t see that the pursuit of holiness in any way takes our trust away from Christ and puts it in ourselves. It seems to me that Hebrews makes it very clear that without holiness “no one will see the Lord” (Heb. 12:14). Why would the author say this? Because God is holy and, if we’re going to live with God forever, we too must be holy. So our entire life should be a pursuit of the holiness that Christ gained for us by his death on the cross. God desires to put this holiness within us, or as Hebrews 12:10 says, “that we may share his holiness.” That is the ultimate rationale behind the Catholic view of salvation: to share in the holiness of God. Nothing less will save us!”
LINK
“The Church understands that we are all sinners in need of a savior (Rom 5:12-21). We are inheritors of original sin and all its consequences, and by actual sin we distance ourselves from God. We can’t save ourselves, but we don’t need to: Jesus Christ has paid the price for our sins. The Catholic Church teaches that salvation comes through Jesus alone (Acts 4:12), since he is the “one mediator between God and man” (1 Tm 2:5-6).
The saving grace won by Jesus is offered as a free gift to us, accessible through repentance, faith, and baptism. We turn away from our sins, we are sorry for them, and we believe in Jesus Christ and the gospel. Repentance shows our willingness to turn from things that keep us from God, and baptism renews us, filling us with the grace necessary to have faith and to live it. This belief is more than just “head knowledge.” Even the demons have that (Jas 2:19). It’s more than just believing you’re saved. Even the Pharisees had that (Jn 5:39). True, saving faith is one lived and exhibited daily: It is “faith working through love” (Gal 5:6, cf. Jas 2:1-26).
Sometimes the Church is accused of teaching “salvation by works,” but this is an empty accusation. This idea has been consistently condemned by the Church. Good works are required by God because he requires obedience to his commands (Mt 6:1-21, 1 Cor 3:8, 13-15) and promises to reward us with eternal life if we obey (Mt 25:34-40, Rom 2:6-7, Gal 6:6-10, Jas 1:12). But even our obedience is impossible without God’s grace; even our good works are God’s gift (Rom 5:5, Phil 2:13). This is the real biblical plan of salvation.”
LINK
I can post many, many more documents disputing your claim, but I know it won’t make a difference, because you are dug in on your obsession with the Catholic Church.
A better question might be…why do some Christians support abortion or same-sex marriage, euthanasia? Can I believe in sola fide, but support immoral works and still be saved?
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:36 pm to AubieinNC2009
quote:True for false: a person who has a saving faith in the merits of Christ on the cross is considered to be righteous before God by that faith alone, and thus able to enter in to Heaven based on Christ's righteousness alone?
This is false, Catholics do works to become more saint like not to be saved . It is to become more Christ like aka Christian
quote:Same question as above: does Christ's merits earn salvation for me if I trust in them by faith, or do I need to do anything else to be righteous before God and enter into Heaven?
False, if someone is hit by a bus and accepts salvation as he is dying is he saved and going to heaven or not since he cant do anything. The Catholic church would teach that he still has salvation.
The works we do on earth are to prepare our souls for purgatory and haven. I.E. Storing our treasures in Heaven.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:40 pm to ShoeBang
quote:Maybe so, but I'm discussing true life and death things here. If I didn't care, I wouldn't say anything.
You sound just like my wife’s baptist grandmother who tells us we are going to hell because we worship the exact same Jesus differently than she does then claims her intentions are pure.
quote:How do you know that Hindus will be in Heaven? Where did you get that information?
People like you will sadly mistaken when they see a bunch of Catholics and Hindus beyond the gates of heaven yet you won’t be let in because of your wolf in sheep’s clothing actions in life.
Also, you don't know anything about my actions in life. I dedicate my life to service. You think arguments about theology on the internet represent a "wolf in sheep's clothing action"?
quote:I think you misunderstand the love of Jesus. He isn't a universalist. He didn't die so that people could believe and do anything they want. He said He is the (only) way, the (only) truth, and the (only) life, and that no one comes to the Father (receives eternal life) except through Him (Jesus). How do you square that with Hindus being in Heaven?
Your statement is a blatant hypocritical cop out. You either love like Jesus did - you know, no matter their religion - or you don’t. No one needs you to correct them to be saved.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:40 pm to pevetohead
The Jews rejoice by saying he is your problem now Catholics. LOL
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:40 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
Free will assumes an ability by man to believe the gospel, and it turns belief, itself, into a work produced by man that merits salvation. That isn't the teaching of scripture, which teaches than man is dead in sin and must be made alive (or born again) by the Spirit.
I don't see how these two statements are mutually exclusive.
And I really don't see how it's possible to get around the logic that faith is a work, in and of itself. It is an act of our God-given free will to choose to believe. The believer must actively choose to assent to God.
If that is not the case, your definition of a living, saving faith cannot be reconciled with what James described as a dead faith, which you said is not saving, but which, apparently, is good enough after all.
Honestly, at this point I feel like we are clearly debating semantics.
This post was edited on 8/26/22 at 3:41 pm
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:40 pm to Lakeboy7
quote:Not at all.quote:More accurate
The New Testament contains all that which the Council of Nicaea intended their people to know for salvation and godly living.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:47 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
True for false: a person who has a saving faith in the merits of Christ on the cross is considered to be righteous before God by that faith alone, and thus able to enter in to Heaven based on Christ's righteousness alone?
Depends on what you mean by "saving faith," which, as we've learned in this thread, is different from non-saving faith.
Absent that information, my answer is that if they were truly repentant and submitted themselves to God's mercy, than I'd like to say true, but I'd also like to believe that an omnipotent and omniscient God would be a much better judge.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:48 pm to tigergirl10
quote:
Catholicism is the original Christian religion.
Bull. True church history dates Catholicsm to 313 AD.
And how funny is it that a Catholic tells some one else to pick up a Bible and read it?? lol.
If you ever do read it check out Revelation 17 and the harlot of Babylon.
Posted on 8/26/22 at 3:57 pm to FooManChoo
quote:
I believe in sola scriptura
Which is not biblical in and of itself. Ironic
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