re: "Above the Fray" libertarians who white knight for everything Biden...

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DWI laws are the perfect example of this dichotomy. A drunk driver is NOT (standing alone) violating any rights until he hits something with his car and causes personal injury or property damage. The law can either (i) punish him after he causes that damage OR (ii) protect members of the society from ever having to worry about potential injury or damage.

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Damaging property or killing someone while driving is a crime. Shouldn't matter if the driver is intoxicated or not

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With that said, anyone who violates the rights or personal property of another while under the influence of drugs should be held responsible for those transgressions. Now, why do you want to determine what substance a consenting adult can ingest?

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How many kids are going to call the cops on their shitbag parents? How many kids of shitbag parents are going to recognize the are being abused and neglected and contact authorities? What is the youngest age that you think this is possible for a child? What about those abused and neglected younger than that?

I guess I should explain some. Wife is an elementary teacher. Just one example of many. Third grade Johnny holds classmate Sally up against a wall while he tries penetrating her with his fingers. Turns out, he had been watching porn with his methhead dad for months prior to this.

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I understand the concept for them exists, but they aren't recorded somewhere in an objective form. If you want laws, you want your preferences (or values or morality or whatever you want to call it) forced on others who may disagree with you. That's how all civilizations function.

Now I agree with Lewis that a creator is the only logical source of an objective set of values (and for me that's the Christian God), but I can't prove that a creator exists and even if I could I can't prove what the creator's values are. I can provide all sorts of evidence, but not concrete proof like we're accustomed to with the scientific method. So at the working level, here on earth, all we have are man's opinion.

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Well which came first: the chicken or the egg? Natural law is intrinsically metaphysical in nature since it’s claims are based in universal and immutable principles that are independent of time and place. Therein lies the radical nature of the American Revolution.

Natural law thus stands distinct from positive law which consists of the written laws and regulations enacted by a particular government. Again, if our rights derive solely from man (i.e. government) those rights are not “inalienable.”

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Being addicted to drugs is awful. How many kids are negatively affected because their parents are addicted to caffeine or sugar? How much worse would those kids life be if sugar and caffeine were illegal? Making drugs illegal isn't helping anyone but drug cartels. That's a fact.

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Ever take a gander at the “Faces of Meth” comparisons? Maybe you should, so you could know how embarrassed you should be for drawing an equivalence between sugar and caffeine, and hard drugs like meth, heroin, crack, etc.

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You could say the same about any other form of addiction such as alcoholism or video gaming....

Child maltreatment and problem gambling: A systematic review....

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And yet, here you are advocating for yet more abuse and neglect by legalizing hard drugs.

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The concept stands distinct, the real world application does not. My objection to your post, in light of the title of this topic, was the implication that other people want their values enforced but you don't. Everybody who wants laws wants their values enforced. Now you may want far fewer of your values enforced than AOC, and I do too, but your initial claim simply is not true for anybody outside of an anarchist.

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I have to agree with you.

Even an anarchist is guilty of this, because HE wants "enforcement" of anarchist principles, in the sense that (simplified) he does not want anyone to be ABLE to make any society-wide rules.

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Being addicted to drugs is awful. How many kids are negatively affected because their parents are addicted to caffeine or sugar? How much worse would those kids life be if sugar and caffeine were illegal? Making drugs illegal isn't helping anyone but drug cartels. That's a fact.

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OK, I've seen that we've developed the old drug issue re: libertarian thought. My position is very old and very consistent with libertarian philosophy.

Drugs should be legal. However, I (the tax payer) should not be robbed by the govt to pay for your poor decisions. So, there should be no such thing as 'drug rehab' or 'unemployment benefits' or 'disability' related to drug use.
You should simply cure yourself or die of hunger in the gutter to serve as an example to others. If you resort to theft you should be shot and killed.
It's all about freedom.

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Damaging property or killing someone while driving is a crime. Shouldn't matter if the driver is intoxicated or not

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It's rarely that simple, though.

Consider a mechanical fault of an automobile or actions of a secondary driver that were tangential to the driver.

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And yet, here you are advocating for yet more abuse and neglect by legalizing hard drugs.

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Alcohol is the very definition of a hard drug. Excessive alcohol use can harm every single organ in your body. Why don’t we bring back alcohol prohibition?

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It’s implementation does not. What if we both believe in natural law but I believe in a different version than you? Again, if you want laws, you want values you believe in enforced on others who may or may not share them. That is an inescapable fact.

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And again, natural laws exists independently of my values. It is a wholly revolutionary concept that is intrinsically suspicious of any man-made political institutions.

That was why the American Revolution was such a radical proposition in human history. Yet if you reject it’s metaphysical implications — as outlined in the Declaration of Independence — it is you are aligning with AOC.