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re: 7 Quick Takeaways from America's New Trade Agreement with Canada and Mexico

Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:00 pm to
Posted by BurningHeart
Member since Jan 2017
9517 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:00 pm to
quote:

[quote]Obviously much more than you.


When the other side can't present a logical argument and relies on some vague statement such as this... you know they have nothing left in the chamber.

If you're going to respond to me, use logic, facts, and business concepts.

These kind of statements you make sound like they come from a 13 year old.



quote:

Where does this price pressure come from when all their competitors are at a 25% tariffed disadvantage?


Mexican workers are paid a much higher wage, Mexican manufacturing price rises while the U.S. stays relatively consistent. Auto manufacturer costs rise because it is no longer such a great deal to manufacture in Mexico... thus they find other, and BETTER ways to drive cost decreases... again R&D and creativity.

This is basic business IB. I don't know what you do for a living, but it must be so specific that you haven't had enough experience in big business to understand these simple concepts.

quote:

You are BADLY mistaken about this point. Not even close to correct.


Then prove me wrong... and use logic and facts.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:01 pm to
I agree with this. The Canadian trade deal is a good example. Really not much change--one Canadian minister said today that they would have signed this deal a year ago.
Posted by Arbengal
Louisiana
Member since Sep 2008
3007 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:03 pm to
God bless you IB, you are just determined to sit here and go over and over these salient facts to convince people of your opinion. Go have a cocktail. No one cares! Lol
Posted by BurningHeart
Member since Jan 2017
9517 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:05 pm to

quote:

Quit the contrary--less competition hinders advances in efficiency.


Uhh yes. That's what we've been saying...

The U.S. cannot compete with the low wages of other countries, thus there's less competition.

Allowing the U.S. to begin competing again advances efficiency.

You're literally arguing against your own point! LOL



quote:

Just think how much profit would have been in the telegraph business if the country had tariffed telephones service 100%? Would you have favored that in the name of saving telegraph jobs??


Why are you relating tariffing telephones in favor of the telegram? That's a vertical technological advancement of within the same subindustry.

How is that related to tariffing China or Mexico for the same goods as the U.S. can produce?
Posted by Fat Bastard
coach, investor, gambler
Member since Mar 2009
72534 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:09 pm to
IB would rather others dump on us and we lose jobs so he can get cheap shite.

I am fine with paying some more for american jobs.

we have discussed this with him ad infinitum.

he is like a dog chasing his tail.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:10 pm to
quote:


When the other side can't present a logical argument and relies on some vague statement such as this... you know they have nothing left in the chamber.

If you're going to respond to me, use logic, facts, and business concepts.


Says burning heart

You said I knew nothing about business. You got a link? what kind of stupid statement was that?

Everything I have posted uses logic, facts and business concepts. Nothing you have posted does.

Where is the logic in your post after post that simply ignores that tariffs result in less competition and less competition is BAD for economies?

Just because you choice to wax on and on and on with your opinions doesn't make them FACTs.

Only in your twisted mind would anyone think that mandated higher labor expenses to any supplier in the US markets will not result in higher consumer cost. Do you think if Ford goes up $500 on Mexican made F150s they will not go up the same amount on US made F150s? Do you just friggin ignore the impacts on consumer spending of higher cost of goods?

Nucor went up on domestic steel to domestic customers almost the same day the tariffs were implemented. All the industries protected will.

Forget it Burning Heart.

Do you have any economic and/or business owner experience?

Posted by jimmy the leg
Member since Aug 2007
34038 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:10 pm to
quote:

Easy profits from protectionist tariffs do not result in more efficiency. 

Quit the contrary--less competition hinders advances in efficiency. 

Just think how much profit would have been in the telegraph business if the country had tariffed telephones service 100%? Would you have favored that in the name of saving telegraph jobs??





If you are looking at nationalized monopolies...sure. In your example, your point is only legit if there is but one US telegraph company. However, if there are more...then competition will typically lead to efficiency. Besides, what are the realistic downsides? That I own my car longer. That I eat less cheese. Hmmmm, I would imagine that even a monopoly would be subject to influences on the market. Fewer customers usually equals introspection (efficiency and R&D).

Unless, of course, those companies receive tax credits...just joking man. I'm just given it to you like Kav gave it to that Ford fellow.
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:19 pm to
I am finished for tonight.

They don't but if I mention the word "tariff" the same ole same ole ranters come out to post.

I hope Trump is successful in getting what he wants out of China--IP protection and fewer barriers to US investment in China (isn't it wild that those are most of the stated goals of the trade office and these folks at PT think what Trump wants will hurt China??))

they simply deny basic truths--tariffs raise cost to consumers, tariffs reduce competition, tariffs are corrupting of government. Trump knows these things.

I am afraid he has put his neck out there too far with China. He might could have just gotten what he wanted by pushing to reform the TPP in a more favorable way. I don't know. Putting China in a position of having to lose face to have a successful negotiation doesn't seem smart to me.

Where I disagree with Trump is on the steel tariffs and on his belief that China will roll over. What Trump wants in China will help them and us tremendously and I know the Vice Premier favors action on these things so I am hopeful this will be resolved at the G20 summit in Argentina.

The Canadian thing was really not a big deal. Both sides claimed victory and neither did very much.

I do not trust Ross and the democrat Navarro. (I wonder what Navarro thinks about Kavenaugh??)

Good night.
Posted by BurningHeart
Member since Jan 2017
9517 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:24 pm to
quote:

Only in your twisted mind would anyone think that mandated higher labor expenses to any supplier in the US markets will not result in higher consumer cost


Why do you keep saying this like I disagree with it???

You've done this for months, and I ALWAYS respond back that I agree it will raise prices.

That's why I call you an emotional poster. I had to dig multiple paragraphs down to find any resemblance of logic. Everything else is "I know more than you, you just dont know".

Guess what, a 3 year old can say the same thing. It doesn't make it right.

I'll tell you what... since you're having trouble forming a logic argument to the piece we dont agree on, I'll make a simple request.

Three choices: Option 1, refute my argument that bringing manufacturing back to the US does not have short term benefits in increased labor participation, higher wages, and M velocity.

Option 2, refute my argument that developing nations will eventually expand their service sectors, and again take US jobs away because of their low labor costs. And bonus points if you can name any sort of benefit that gives to the US.

Option 3, explain why Trump would purposely slow down the short term economy in favor of tariffs and this revised trade agreement? What benefit does this give him?

Ok let's see if you are able to take a straightforward directive and explain your points with logic...
This post was edited on 10/2/18 at 10:27 pm
Posted by bfniii
Member since Nov 2005
17840 posts
Posted on 10/2/18 at 10:45 pm to
chicken, ban ib until this simple question is answered

ib, you are a pansy who doesn't even believe what you type. your refusal to address the question is proof. your idiotic repetitive droning has made everyone tone deaf to your crusade
Posted by RobbBobb
Matt Flynn, BCS MVP
Member since Feb 2007
27883 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 10:56 am to
quote:

Let's just raise min wage to 16/hr Would that benefit consumers?

wut?

Its just value. My parents bought their first brand new car off of $15,000 household income. I can buy a significantly better new car, on $100k+ income.

Are you saying my earnings are worth less because prices are more, and my income is also more? Hardly. Its just value in a barter system. People raise prices, they either get it, or go under

And I am in no way in favor of a minimum wage. As you can see it guarantees illegal immigration. Money off the books, as it were. And allows China and Mexico to steal jobs, based on lower wages, alone.

So if car prices go up, they will get that price or go bankrupt. But they wont be taking jobs to Mexico, just so they can sell cheaper cars
Posted by Jbird
In Bidenville with EthanL
Member since Oct 2012
73424 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 10:59 am to
quote:

Did you come out of the womb this way or did you experience a horrible accident early in life?

He is emotionally scarred, he came home from grade school only to see Wilbur Ross knocking the bottom out of his mommy.
Posted by MrLSU
Yellowstone, Val d'isere
Member since Jan 2004
25953 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:02 am to
"Does it include Film Tax Credits?

Yes. This latest agreement makes no pretense to be about free film credits (or even freer film credits). It’s a protectionist agreement imposed by the U.S. on the other two countries to steal all of their motion picture business."

You missed this part of the article which is very important!
Posted by Old Sarge
Dean of Admissions, LSU
Member since Jan 2012
55224 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:04 am to
There’s a difference though and you have to add knowledge it between job growth in service and minimum-wage fields and job growth in Manufacturing and production

With better earning through growth in Manufacturing and production inflation is easily offset
Posted by narddogg81
Vancouver
Member since Jan 2012
19674 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:10 am to
quote:

Don't shoot the messenger
would be so much easier if you just did it yourself
Posted by Plx1776
Member since Oct 2017
16176 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:11 am to
quote:

What if the messenger is intentionally propagating a shitty message? 
Can I shoot then?

Yes. If a messenger is told something and then he puts his own twist on the message before delivering it. It's safe to say that you can shoot him.
This post was edited on 10/3/18 at 11:12 am
Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:24 am to
Wages are higher than at anytime in our history. That is in real dollars too.

So it is just a myth that wages and standards of living cannot grow in a more service economy. Computer programmers, doctors, research scientist ect. are all service jobs BTW.
Posted by bamafan1001
Member since Jun 2011
15783 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 11:50 am to
Tariffs have destroyed our economy!!!
Posted by Homesick Tiger
Greenbrier, AR
Member since Nov 2006
54202 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 12:06 pm to
quote:

there is no evidence in any numbers of the Bureau of Labor Statistics to support the claim that our trade deficits have resulted in fewer jobs in the US economy.


Tell that to the employees of Whirlpool in Ft. Smith, AR in 2012 when the doors were closed for good. At one time had a workforce of 4,500 people but the company slowly but surely sent those jobs down south across the border.

Claiming there are no less jobs today than back then isn't anything to gloat about. Imagine the numbers if those jobs hadn't been shipped out of country.

Posted by I B Freeman
Member since Oct 2009
27843 posts
Posted on 10/3/18 at 12:24 pm to
quote:

Tell that to the employees of Whirlpool in Ft. Smith, AR in 2012 when the doors were closed for good. At one time had a workforce of 4,500 people but the company slowly but surely sent those jobs down south across the border.

Claiming there are no less jobs today than back then isn't anything to gloat about. Imagine the numbers if those jobs hadn't been shipped out of country.



Would you like examples of layoffs because of tariffs???

LINK
LINK
LINK

If you need more let me know. It is just wrong to attempt to look at individual companies as you want to do. Those steel tariffs will cause more and more layoffs. That is just basic economics. Thankfully our economy is strong and most can find jobs in other sectors.
This post was edited on 10/3/18 at 12:31 pm
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