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re: $572 Million Decision Against J&J in Opioid Trial - Why we can't have anything nice
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:19 pm to Scoop
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:19 pm to Scoop
quote:Self control? You think we should be using self control?!!! When there's a RACIST in the White House?!!
Opioids are safe and effective if used properly.
The patent for hydrocodone was issued in 1923.
Do you think that 95 years later something magical happened?
0
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:20 pm to NC_Tigah
This sucks for everyone. We will never see a dime of that money, it will all disappear to politicians, and we will never get any decent pain management ever again.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:28 pm to cwill
quote:Via the Mexicans, don't forget.
Paved the way for the Chinese to force Americans to take fentanyl.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:34 pm to Wednesday
quote:
They were marketed as nonaddictive.
What? So, doctors don’t know that they are addictive? Maybe that is why they prescribed 50 pills at a time.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:37 pm to BuckyCheese
quote:
Seems the docs overprescribing the shite are the problem. Not the companies manufacturing the drugs for legitimate patients.
Only recently have doctors been sued for overprescribing pain meds. It's completely ignored that prior to the "crisis" doctors were being sued for UNDER prescribing. That was hammered into us in med school in 1998-99 in our pain management/palliative care course in med school. We were implored to write them. At the time, we were told the largest lawsuit against an individual physician was for under prescribing pain meds and the patient killed him/herself. I believe it was in California. We were told that we were to treat the patients pain, try to find and fix the underlying problem, but PRESCRIBE! We were instructed that we had medicines to help these patients and not to be judge and jury. Monitor for signs of abusive behaviors and address them if necessary. No limits were set as pain is subjective and chronic use leads to tolerance and that there is no "maximum dose". This in no way justifies pill mills, but I hope it gives background into how we got to where we are now. There were no guidelines or dosing limits. Even those of us that were judicious with them still inherited patients on high dose narcotics. You can't just stop them and it's illegal to detox someone out of an approved facility. To blame all doctors that wrote/write opiates is ignorant and incorrect. A small percentage went batshit crazy with it. The new guidelines are helping, but you can't put the toothpaste back in the tube. Getting someone off of long term narcotics can be quite difficult, if not impossible, and there are no studies showing it's beneficial. Some just have to be managed and the guidelines and patient awareness of why we are doing it help a lot. Legit patients understand and have been compliant. Seekers haven't been and are sent on their way after a good faith effort to help them. The problem developed over decades, it can't go away over night.
Now we are seeing the pendulum swing back the other way and legitimate patients can't get treatment because doctors' fear of liability. Even within the guidelines, many are scared to write them due to conflicting information that varies state to state and insurance to insurance. It's just a matter of time before we see lawsuits again for under prescribing. It's a no win situation. I do what I feel is right and document it to the best of my ability. We also now have the patient prescription monitoring profiles and insurance will cover drug screens. I did drug screens prior to this and often out of my own pocket because I didn't want a legit patient to have to pay. The fault lies with everyone. But no one seems to blame the patients that lied and overplayed their symptoms. Blame the doctors, blame the drug companies, blame everyone but the addict....that's bullshite.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:40 pm to NC_Tigah
That’s not how it works. The pharmaceutical
cos. Misrepresented the products and aggressively marketed them through their reps.
On the other hand, there were plenty of.
“Pill mills” operating locally. Some of the assholes’ families came to me to represent them in trying to
recover forfeited assets. Too bad, your daddy was getting rich as a drug pusher with a medical license. There is plenty of blame up and down the supply chain. When a pharmaceutical company ships millions of dollars worth of product to a modest corner store within a very short time period, it can hardly claim innocence.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:42 pm to Scoop
quote:
Opioids are safe and effective if used properly. The patent for hydrocodone was issued in 1923. Do you think that 95 years later something magical happened?
Lawyers and politicians is what happened. They started the problem and made money off of it and now they want to "fix" what they created. Not to take blame off of bad doctors. But this is a complex issue and the blame should be evenly distributed to all involved.
Not to mention insurers that wouldn't blink an eye at paying for pain meds, but would deny diagnostic testing and treatments due to expense. Hell, it's still true to this day. Even now they are loath to cover much less addictive, yet effective medicines such as Nucynta, while covering narcotics that cost the same or more.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:46 pm to VOR
quote:
That’s not how it works. The pharmaceutical cos. Misrepresented the products and aggressively marketed them through their reps.
True.
quote:
“Pill mills” operating locally. Some of the assholes’ families came to me to represent them in trying to recover forfeited assets. Too bad, your daddy was getting rich as a drug pusher with a medical license. There is plenty of blame up and down the supply chain. When a pharmaceutical company ships millions of dollars worth of product to a modest corner store within a very short time period, it can hardly claim innocence.
True. My issue is those that label all doctors that prescribe pain medicine as "pill docs". There's a right way and wrong way to do it...and the rules have changed over the years. And there are still bullshite obstacles in our way. Reduced coverage of drug screens to ensure compliance and improper use. Lack of coverage of less addictive alternatives, and treatments. The whole system is fricked. I'd rather not write a single damn one, but if you're doing your job as a physician, you have to sometimes.
ETA-although I've done it before, do you know how much it pains me to agree with you?
This post was edited on 8/26/19 at 6:10 pm
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:50 pm to Janky
quote:
So, doctors don’t know that they are addictive? Maybe that is why they prescribed 50 pills at a time.
I recall seeing in the news that when they originally marketed the pharmaceuticals, they advised the docs that the drug wasn’t addictive, and recommended no limitations on use/prescribing.
I’ve got a few friends in the medical device world, and their reps literally have to go into surgery with the docs in case there’s a problem or a question.
I think the issue was the addictive attributes of the drugs were misrepresented in the sales pitches. Doctors and pharmacists are not the same thing.
Certainly, it isn’t the only issue, but I do think that these people became billionaires hiding a known risk. That’s scary.
This post was edited on 8/26/19 at 5:52 pm
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:52 pm to Wednesday
The opioid epidemic is big enough everyone involved is culpable.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:54 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:
Enter government lawyers to sue for a problem 100% of their own creation.
This. It really pissed me off that Arkansas is leading this war on opiates and municipalities are suing drug companies. Some of the same doctors that are anti anything for pain were the same damn ones directing us to prescribe them 20 years ago, and I know for a fact that some of them were paid spokespersons for opiate drugs. Now add in the fact that the shitty arse "insurance" these local gov'ts provide their employees (police, firefighters, city workers etc) don't cover drug screens or the more expensive but less addictive options. They'll cover the shite out of hydrocodone, oxycodone etc. though. And they will deny the shite out of anything you try to do diagnostically or treatment wise to fix or alleviate the underlying problem. Someone needs to sue those fricks for hypocrisy.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 5:56 pm to Ragnar Danneskjold
quote:
The opioid epidemic is big enough everyone involved is culpable.
Have an upvote.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 6:12 pm to MrLarson
quote:
So doctors didn't know pain meds were addictive
You laugh now but when a drug company comes to a doctor's office, they are relying on that rep to give them information about the drug. Drug companies cited one study that was a paragraph long which stated opioids were not addictive and then incentivized any doctor they could to prescribe them.
So this really is a situation where the majority of doctors were fed misinformation. It's easy to think they are addicting because new information has shined a light on much damage they have caused on a population level. Some doctors were in cahoots with the drug companies.. and are now in jail because they supported addictions.
But you can frick right off if you knew way back when they came out if they were addictive or not. No one did except the drug companies. They lied and now they face the consequences.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 6:14 pm to Ragnar Danneskjold
quote:
The opioid epidemic is big enough everyone involved is culpable.
That's a BINGO!
Opioid companies should get sued
Doctors who overprescribed should have their license removed/put in jail if their patient dies
State governments should not be allowed to touch the money won in the suit. It should be donated to an institution that will set up and fund addiction medicine clinics
Posted on 8/26/19 at 6:33 pm to OKtiger
What about the Feds that approved them? Hurry, someone go try to sue them.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 6:41 pm to Scoop
quote:
Do you think that 95 years later something magical happened?
A combination of :
Aggressive advertising, massive over prescription, pill mill doctors, asinine "pain scale" system.
An example:
My dad had tooth surgery and the doctor asked if he wanted anything for the pain. My dad said no. He asked again. My dad said no again. Before leaving the doctor asked my dad a third time and said he could write him something even if he didn't use it just in case. My dad again said no.
The doctor wrote him a prescription for a 30 day supply of hydrocodone and handed it to him.
That's fricked up and it's a common problem in the Healthcare field.
I've lost a close friend, a cousin, and a few acquaintances to the Opiod epidemic. Everyone knowingly and willingly involved in creating that crisis can burn in hell as far as I'm concerned.
This post was edited on 8/26/19 at 6:46 pm
Posted on 8/26/19 at 6:48 pm to SmackoverHawg
quote:
Blame the doctors, blame the drug companies, blame everyone but the addict....that's bullshite.
Why can't I blame all of them?
Posted on 8/26/19 at 7:41 pm to NC_Tigah
So you want a drug addled populace?
Posted on 8/26/19 at 7:58 pm to NC_Tigah
When are they going to sue The VA and CMS for pushing pain as the fifth vital sign? Pain assessment was made to occur repeatedly. Under treatment of pain was hyped throughout the late 1990s. Lawsuits were won for under treating pain.
Posted on 8/26/19 at 7:58 pm to NC_Tigah
quote:THe only cure for government incompetence is....
Enter government lawyers to sue for a problem 100% of their own creation.
... more government!!
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