re: 11x increase in shingles after shingles shot for those 65 & older.

Those railing against this vaccine clearly have no idea about Shingles.

It felt like someone was literally torturing me with electro shocks. You also get horrible pain in your joints leading up to the rash. Then you get the rash and it’s awful. After it goes away I was heavily fatigued for weeks. I got this in my 20s and was healthy. Imagine a 70 year old getting it?

Yeah. I’ve just also been told that it wasn’t a good experience all the way around.

I never had chicken pox. At least not where I showed any symptoms.

But I caught the shingles about ten years ago.

frick the shingles. I went and got both vaccines. I wouldn’t wish shingles on Powerman.

Congrats. You are now 3% less likely to get shingles.

LINK to paper

Although this paper is written from a pro-vaccine standpoint (which is contrary to Steve Kirsch's take), it does hint at some facts that should be brought up in vaccine conversations more often.

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The exact cause of VZV reactivation after shingles vaccines is not fully understood but may involve several factors. Vaccines can transiently weaken or alter cellular immunity, allowing latent VZV to reactivate. Immunosenescence, an age-related immune decline starting in an individual’s 60s, affects both innate and adaptive immunity [21]. The RZV vaccine's AS01B adjuvant strongly stimulates innate responses and suppresses natural killer (NK) cells within hours of vaccination . We hypothesize that, especially in those with immunosenescence or compromised immunity, this immune activation may reduce VZV surveillance or redirect CD8 T cells to the vaccine, creating a window for reactivation.

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The paper states that cellular immunity is weakened only transiently, but is this temporary duration actually proven? It's important because studies should also be done on whether vaccines increase susceptibility to even non-vaccine target conditions. This is known as "non-specific effects" of vaccines.

Another gap, which is not discussed, is whether it is known how vaccines - especially adjuvanted ones - affect innate and cellular immune function long-term. Has newer knowledge from within the last 15 years - that innate cells can be “trained” or epigenetically reprogrammed - been incorporated into vaccine safety and efficacy studies? If not, why not? Does this knowledge completely alter the previous understanding of the immune system?

As for NK cells, it is important to note that they are vital for cancer surveillance and other regulatory functions. Is there data for how long they're suppressed or how their functionality is affected by Shingrix and other adjuvanted vaccines?

TLDR: Has innate immunity been consistently undervalued, understudied, and unevaluated in modern medicine, and could this long-standing oversight have resulted in trade-offs that detrimentally affect overall immune function and regulation?

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if the benefit (measured in person YEARS) isn’t “statistically zero” your cost benefit analysis should lead you to a different conclusion.

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Awesome. What’s the person years benefit per vaccination?

What’s the earliest age where the shingles vaccine is recommended? I had them in my mid-20s but worry about a recurrence.

The general rule of 50+ if you don't have a condition which compromises your immune system functioning and 19+ if you do, but there are some subtleties and controversies about what might be considered immunocompromised, so talking to your doctor would help you know if the benefits might outweigh risks for you personally given your specific health history.

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Awesome. What’s the person years benefit per vaccination?

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I assume higher than “statistically zero”