- My Forums
- Tiger Rant
- LSU Recruiting
- SEC Rant
- Saints Talk
- Pelicans Talk
- More Sports Board
- Fantasy Sports
- Golf Board
- Soccer Board
- O-T Lounge
- Tech Board
- Home/Garden Board
- Outdoor Board
- Health/Fitness Board
- Movie/TV Board
- Book Board
- Music Board
- Political Talk
- Money Talk
- Fark Board
- Gaming Board
- Travel Board
- Food/Drink Board
- Ticket Exchange
- TD Help Board
Customize My Forums- View All Forums
- Show Left Links
- Topic Sort Options
- Trending Topics
- Recent Topics
- Active Topics
Started By
Message
re: What self defense ammo do you keep in your AR?
Posted on 2/9/23 at 2:34 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
Posted on 2/9/23 at 2:34 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I thought this was generally accepted to be a poor performer as far as self defense rounds go?
I doubt those that hold that opinion a) have any real empirical evidence and b) would stand in front of one to test its terminal performance. Avulsion from any rifle round is going to stop a threat. Just ask Lefty Medic from Kenosha...
2
Posted on 2/9/23 at 5:11 am to Clames
quote:
I doubt those that hold that opinion a) have any real empirical evidence and b) would stand in front of one to test its terminal performance
The problem with using green tips is stray rounds going through your neighbors house killing someone. I know it’s small chance but it can happen if you throwing 20-30 rounds at someone outside.
If you live in a rural area this isn’t an issue.
Shawn Ryan who is an ex navy seal and CIA contractor said they wouldn’t use M855. A lot of the bad guys in Iraq would take Meth before going out to fight. He said green tips offered very poor performance against meth heads.
This post was edited on 2/9/23 at 5:13 am
Posted on 2/9/23 at 6:47 am to lsufan1971
I’d feel good about anything except FMJ rounds due to over penetration. Too many kids in the house in rooms, sheet rock walls, neighbors close by. My primary home defense is a p226 and streamlight in my nightstand safe though. For 5.56, I’d honestly probably go with a Vmax or Varmegedon bullet.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:02 am to baldona
quote:
likely to go through Sheetrock
I think most pistol/rifle rounds will bring your neighbors into play.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:21 am to Broke
quote:
M855 with every 3rd round being a tracer round added in
If you shoot a tracer in doors at night is it bright enough to affect your night vision?
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:54 am to Clames
Anyone use frangible ammo?
Posted on 2/9/23 at 10:03 am to holmesbr
quote:
I think most pistol/rifle rounds will bring your neighbors into play.
Pretty much, unless using frangible ammo there's nothing that's not going to risk over penetration. Every single 5.56 round will destabilize upon impact, fragment and carry enough energy in the larger fragments to go through a common residential structure. With 5.56, the saving grace vs. pistols and large buckshot is that those fragments dump energy quickly. What's funny is that the criticisms leveled against M855 are every bit as applicable to so-called "better" options from Speer, Black Hills, ect as while they'll tout consistent expansion and cohesion of the bullet in soft tissue (which some third party commenters will claim mitigates over penetration) the actual manufacturers will state that is to help the bullets be more barrier blind and aid in straight-through barrier penetration. Which makes sense because the military and LEO's care about shooting someone through barriers and they are the chief marketing targets. Can't have it both ways, laws of physics always has the final say no matter how many gelatine blocks in simulated walls are shot on YouTube.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 10:35 am to Clames
quote:
What's funny is that the criticisms leveled against M855 are every bit as applicable to so-called "better" options from Speer, Black Hills, ect as while they'll tout consistent expansion and cohesion of the bullet in soft tissue
That depends on the bullet you're talking about. Black Hills in particular has mainly used OTM, and that's what the SOCOM preference is unless something's changed, not bonded soft points. OTMs are garbage for shooting through barriers precisely because they tend to fragment. They have a short neck in the gel, then the jacket comes off in pieces.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 12:17 pm to baldona
quote:
If you shoot a tracer in doors at night is it bright enough to affect your night vision?
The burn doesn't happen for maybe 30 yards. So your biggest issue indoor is the muzzle flash, not the tracer round. I use the tracer for Zombies coming down the long driveway
Posted on 2/9/23 at 1:24 pm to lsufan1971
Mags all stacked and loaded with FMJ Tula and Wolf.
No need for thrice the price ammo for my readiness
No need for thrice the price ammo for my readiness
Posted on 2/9/23 at 1:43 pm to lsufan1971
Why over think it?
Varmint rounds are the most devastating for soft tissue.
I'm not shopting through bricks or stone. I'm trying to eliminate a threat.
Varmint rounds are the most devastating for soft tissue.
I'm not shopting through bricks or stone. I'm trying to eliminate a threat.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 5:05 pm to Clames
quote:
XM855 green tip
Never use green tips in a self defense scenario. There are countless stories and retellings out there of operators shooting guys with green tips snd they never even flinched because the rounds just went right through them.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 5:10 pm to lsufan1971
I live in the middle of nowhere, and help would be a long way away. I probably have more ready than is necessary, but I'd rather have too much than not enough. My wife(no pics) is a former cop, so these aren't all mine
77gr HP in the AR15.
Frangible 9mm in AR9.
Dove shot, 2 00, 2 HP slugs in the 12ga.
Hornady HP 9mm x2, one in each nightstand.
77gr HP in the AR15.
Frangible 9mm in AR9.
Dove shot, 2 00, 2 HP slugs in the 12ga.
Hornady HP 9mm x2, one in each nightstand.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:14 pm to Jack Ruby
quote:
There are countless stories and retellings out there of operators shooting guys with green tips snd they never even flinched because the rounds just went right through them.
Yeah, through SBR's. The problem wasn't M855, it was the platform and ARDEC put out a lot of research on this. M855 was chosen with 20" rifles in mind, it is very consistent out of 20" rifles. In 14.5" M4's it becomes inconsistent. I don't have SBR's, so it follows all the stories from operators doesn't apply. Really, there's a lot of bad information and just because an operator said something, doesn't mean it's true and you're probably missing a lot of important context.
This post was edited on 2/9/23 at 9:24 pm
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:22 pm to Flats
quote:
OTMs are garbage for shooting through barriers precisely because they tend to fragment.
No, not true. 77gr OTM's are probably more barrier blind than M855. Don't confuse OTM's with hollow points, the open tip is a residual characteristic of the reverse-drawing process used to make the bullet jacket. Same process used for M855A1 too. The drawing process work hardens the copper jacket more than conventional processes, all other things being equal. OTM's are used in SOCOM because they are consistent, more accurate, and behave better against certain barriers than M855 because M855 is very yaw dependent when it comes to terminal performance. Shorter barrels, and SOCOM often uses barrels shorter than issue M4's, cause issues with M855.
Posted on 2/9/23 at 9:48 pm to Clames
quote:
No, not true. 77gr OTM's are probably more barrier blind than M855. Don't confuse OTM's with hollow points, the open tip is a residual characteristic of the reverse-drawing process used to make the bullet jacket.
It is true. I understand how they're made, and they don't make good barrier blind rounds. OTMs fragment.
I didn't say anything about M855; it's not particularly great at anything unless you need to punch through thin metal. Socom doesn't use it because they don't have to, even though M855A1 was specifically designed for M4 barrel lengths.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:05 am to lsufan1971
quote:
How much stock to do have on hand for said ammo,
I have found that number makes people feel very uncomfortable.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:20 am to Jack Ruby
quote:
Never use green tips in a self defense scenario
I'm in the camp that basically any bullet out of a rifle at close range is going to be very effective. Its probably not ideal, but I can't imagine it would matter a whole lot at home defense ranges. I can't see any .223 bullet penciling through any tissue at 3000 fps.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 7:40 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I'm in the camp that basically any bullet out of a rifle at close range is going to be very effective.
Same here. Also, I’m not on board with shooting a rifle indoors when I have other options. That flash and noise would be rough. I keep pistols handy for home defense.
Posted on 2/10/23 at 10:28 am to DownshiftAndFloorIt
quote:
I can't see any .223 bullet penciling through any tissue at 3000 fps.
It can and does. It can also have a big yaw rate and do a lot of damage. I don't think it's a bb gun or anything and I've had it as my only ammo in places I'd have rather not been, and I wasn't thinking "dammit I'm going to die because I have this shitty ammo".
But if I have an option at home, and I do, there are better choices.
Page 3 of 4
Popular
Back to top
Follow TigerDroppings for LSU Football News